Inheritance angst - shocked & angry

[hoopyloopy2]

MIL died like last year and we are just getting to grips now with the details of her estate. FIL died 13 years ago.

To cut a long story short, it’s emerged that she gave a very large amount of money (hundreds of thousands of pounds) to BIL a few years’ ago after he divorced and to enable him to start his own business. DH and I have never received money from his parents - in fact we didn’t even know she had that kind of money.

It’s become clear that DH’s other brother has also received financial support over the years but nowhere near the same level. DH is certainly not more financial comfortable than the other two now or in the past - so there’s no logic as to why he/we were overlooked. Their mum did play favourites over the years, but there was no rift or issue (that we know of) that would explain why she should have skewed things in such an extreme way.

DH has confronted BIL after working all this out by going through years of bank accounts. BIL says it was a loan that he was intending to pay back at some point, but he hasn’t. Issue now is whether this is taken into account when dividing up the estate, DH & I think it should be as amounts to 2/3rds of her savings. MIL did not suggest it should be in her will. But it is SUCH a significant amount of money. BIL is embarrassed & defensive at being found out, and is implying DH is being nosey by going through their mum’s bank accounts in detail - ridiculously.

To put things in context, DH and I are in a financially unstable situation now. He isn’t working after being made redundant several months ago, for the 3rd time in a few years, all very stressful & difficult. I work but we cannot survive on my salary alone. DH has become disillusioned with his line of work and would dearly love the kind of financial support that BIL was given to make choices -ie start his own business or make a career change. We would never have dreamt of asking his mum to bail us out while she was alive though. But it seems BIL had no such qualms - this has shocked us both.

So are we BU to ask for this large payment to BIL to be recognised in how the estate is now divvied up? Ie that he gets a lot less as a result. I know their mum was entitled to spend her money as she liked, so there is no legal case here. I am worried that asking will cause major upsets & divisions but at the same time, it feels profoundly unfair & will fester with DH (and me) if we just let this go.

We have been through an inheritance 'situation' recently that was pretty horrible and very stressful. DH's grandma died last year and left her estate to be divided equally between DH and SIL. She had two other grandchildren who she did not see or keep in touch with becase when their dad died many years ago (her son) their mother took them to the other end of the country to live- they were very young. DH and SIL lived very close to her. PIL looked after her and DH and SIl saw her every day when they were growing up and very often all their lives. Anyway, that is what she decided when she made her will after her husband died. She was in good health physically and mentally at the time and lived for years afterwards without changing her will. It explained in her will why she had done it.
However, it caused upset when it came to light after she died. No one knew she had done it. Dh's dad - her son- knew she had left it to her grandchildren but not just to two of them.
We had a solicitor's letter from cousins' solicitor; legally there were no grounds for a challenge but there was a suggestion they were considering a challenge and that morally DH ad SIL should share it with cousins. Our solicitor was very clear it was grandma's money to do with as she wished.
DH and SIL did consider sharing it but decided not to following solicitor's advice. A will is the wishes of the person whose will it is as to how they want to leave their estate. Why should anyone think they know better if the person was in sound mind?
Your MIL could have chosen to leave it all to a charity if she wished to. She clearly did not put in her will that the money she gave BIL was to be considered as his share of her estate.It sounds unfair but for whatever reason she did not do that. I think you have to live with it. If it was less than 7 years before her death it may push the value of the estate over IHT level.
BIL sounds as if he is sweating a bit now he has been found out - he may be willing to make some concession.

I think you already know BIL isn't going to do the right thing.

He probably can't afford to even if he wanted to.

Hard as it might be, you are just going to need to suck this up and forget about it. Otherwise it's just going to eat you up.

I would be more "shocked and angry" that he went through years of bank statements to find this out.

It was MIL money to do as she wished when she was alive.
If she wanted to lend him money that’s up to her.
Maybe she gave it to him but now he’s saying it’s a loan to make her look better now she’s no longer here.
It shouldn’t be taken into consideration. If your MIL wanted it taken into consideration she would of wrote it in her will.

I think it's very wrong of you to say he should "do the right thing" because clearly if it was his mother's wishes she'd have written it into the will

She did not, so it was not her wish. She chose to help her son. It was her choice. She chose to not change her will to reflect what she had done

Her will is her will and you are the one who should do the right thing and respect her decisions.

Gosh, how vulgar.

My parents have given one of my siblings vast amounts of money over the years, for various reasons.

I simply can't imagine picking over the finer details of this once my parents die in order to claw back some money. It was their choice at the time - I certainly don't think I have a claim on it.

I see questions like this, and I wonder ...

When does an adult's money stop being their money to spend as they choose, and instead become their children's inheritance?

For me, the answer is simple. That money becomes inheritance only upon death and subject to the provision of a will, or inheritance law.

But for so many people, it seems that they spend many years watching every penny their adult parents spend - totting up who gets what.

For those people, the watchers and totters, it seems that their parent's money is no longer their own - it has already become theirs and they get all bitter and twisted about how their parents' spend their (the parent's not the children's) money.

OP. YABU.

He says he meant to pay it back so it should be taken into account.

What ajanddjjmum says has a point. My beloved mother gave a number of very generous lifetime gifts in the five years before her death, some to me, some to my sister, not a lot to my brother ( but he had benefited quite some time before that) and so we are having to pay quite a lot of tax on what she left, which is causing some upset. Basically my brother thinks that his share should be a third before the tax is taken off, but my mother had left everything to us in equal shares, regardless of what she had given to us previously. The value of your mums estate will need to include any lifetime gifts made in the last 7 years and if these bring the value of her estate over the inheritance tax threshold then the tax will need to be paid before anything at all goes to the beneficiaries of the estate.

I do understand how you feel, and it must seem unfair, but if your mother left everything to you equally then that is what she wanted to do. However if there was a signed loan agreement then of course this must be taken into account as a debt due to the estate.

Bluntness100
I think it's very wrong of you to say he should "do the right thing" because clearly if it was his mother's wishes she'd have written it into the will

She did not, so it was not her wish. She chose to help her son. It was her choice. She chose to not change her will to reflect what she had done

Her will is her will and you are the one who should do the right thing and respect her decisions.

I agree with this!

BoneyBackJefferson why shouldn’t my DH (as joint executor with both the other 2 sons) go through his mum’s bank statements? He’s perfectly entitled to do that. Wouldn’t most people?

We had a load before my parents died. We had to pay it back (we would have anyway and it wasn't as enormous as the one in this case).

The accounts don't 'balance'. If the loan had been to someone outside the family then they'd have to pay it back.

And if he doesn't then surely there's a huge tax liability?

I guess it depends if the money borrowed is “owed to the estate” or not. Technically it is a debt. (Just as if MIL had over paid her water bill - they don’t get to keep it!)

Do you have it in writing that it was a loan (and not a gift) and hasn’t been paid back yet.

why shouldn’t my DH (as joint executor with both the other 2 sons) go through his mum’s bank statements? He’s perfectly entitled to do that. Wouldn’t most people?

I would say there's a duty to do so.

hoopyloopy2
BoneyBackJefferson why shouldn’t my DH (as joint executor with both the other 2 sons) go through his mum’s bank statements? He’s perfectly entitled to do that. Wouldn’t most people?

No. There was no reason. The balance figures were at the bottom of the latest statement, we didn't need to go through years and years of statements. Why would you?

We did the executor thing on my late FIL 500k estate and never needed to trawl old bank statements, they just weren't relevant

Is this a reverse?

If not- sorry to your DH as this must feel shit for him but you're not entitled to any money she chose to give away in the past. It's her money- she chooses who it goes to.

It was a loan, so your BIL should repay it when he gets his inheritance.

@mumblechum01 Can you advise?

When does an adult's money stop being their money to spend as they choose, and instead become their children's inheritance?

This is an excellent point. The grabby op and her husband are now deciding it was their money when she was alive. It was not. It was the mother's to do with as she pleased. They had no claim on it.

The inheritance is what is in the estate when she has passed away and as she dictated in her will. That's it. No ifs and buts.

And going through her bank accounts is simply appalling. It was a private matter between her and her son and had she wanted the op and her husband to know she would have told them. She did not. They should not now be so disrepesctful and trawl through her bank accounts like vultures.

Op, you and your husband should have some respect.

God I really hate these sorts of posts and find them very distasteful. Someone has died for goodness sake. She chose to lend money to her son whilst alive - the amount is immaterial. She chose to have her estate divided equally. You say you aren't money-grabbing but it sounds extremely money grabbing to be questioning this to the point of starting a thread about it. You aren't entitled to anything, and should be delighted to be receiving anything at all - your MIL could (and probably should) have spent everything when alive to avoid people fighting over her carcass bones in this awful manner. My father and his sister lost so much of my grandmother's estate because they were both greedy and went to court for years and years to do battle over every bloody detail. I would never begrudge my siblings the extra help they have had from my mother, nor bring it up after her death as a way to get more fucking money.

On this one I do feel the people pointing out it's her will and therefore her right, whilst not incorrect are perhaps missing the point that based in history, it's highly likely MIL would also have helped out this son, now he's not in regular work (assuming there's no back story and it's reasonable to assume all three brothers would be treated equally).

I think there is info missing... when did MIL make the will, and how does that compare to when she gave/loaned the money?

If the will was made first, and as DB has confirmed he expected to pay it back, it's reasonable to assume MIL would have expected the debt to have been cleared before the will was enacted. (Especially if she died prematurely or suddenly?)

Given the OP's circumstances, I'd certainly, be asking for it to be accounted for, but if the loan was years ago and the will was more recent, I think it's reasonable to assume MIL did intend for that son to get more.

*No. There was no reason. The balance figures were at the bottom of the latest statement, we didn't need to go through years and years of statements. Why would you?

We did the executor thing on my late FIL 500k estate and never needed to trawl old bank statements, they just weren't relevant*

I think (from my gran’s will) one of the questions you have to answer is along the lines of “have any gifts been made in the last 7 years” (to ensure Mr Taxman gets his cut).

How would you know without going through and checking?

why shouldn’t my DH (as joint executor with both the other 2 sons) go through his mum’s bank statements? He’s perfectly entitled to do that. Wouldn’t most people?

Of course most people wouldn't trawl through bank statements.

Whatever happened whilst your MIL was alive was her business.

If the loan wasn't formal or mentioned in the will then she didn't want it to be.

You need to follow her will and respect her wishes. I think it would be very disrespectful not to do so.

If it was a loan then the loan should be repaid to the estate!

OP I don't know if there is any remedy for this unless there is something in writing, and the legal route is likely to end in misery for all (except the solicitor), but doing nothing is going to leave you feeling differently about the BiL in future. I do feel for you.

Would it be possible to get the brothers sitting round the kitchen table to try to sort it out?

I don’t think you are unreasonable to ask your BIL to consider he already has had a lot . If he is a person of integrity he will ensure the siblings get equal shares. However, in a court of law you probably wouldn’t win. I hope he does the right thing.