That many people believe they are pro choice but are not

[winterstail]

My understanding of pro choice is that you support a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy.

Many people claim to be pro choice but then express shock at the reason a woman chooses to terminate.

This isn't pro choice then, is it?

Most people are Pro-choice to a point. Very few support abortion to term. They are still pro-choice.

I agree - this is my position (though I have been told on previous threads like this that I am not truly pro-choice)

I had a premature baby who was born at 35 weeks perfectly able to survive on his own without medical intervention. I can't support the abortion of a baby to term simply because the mother is exercising bodily autonomy and doesn't wish to gestate it any longer.

I also worry about the removal of protections from vulnerable women and girls who very much want to keep their baby but face significant pressure from the father / their families / their communities. At the moment, if they can conceal the pregnancy until 24 weeks, they can continue without the fear of being "dragged by their hair" down to the clinic for an abortion. If we remove the limit and made it legal to request abortion to term, we also remove the protection that these women and girls have.

And we would be kidding ourselves if we didn't think that abortion to term would be used for sex selection, which is likely to have a greater adverse impact on female foetuses. When we get to this ideal world where boys and girls are valued equally, then this issue would fall away. Until we get there it's a foolish feminist (IMO) that does not see the unintended consequence of termination on request to term.

I am completely pro-choice within the laws of the uk which are pretty reasonable. I have helped friends, relatives, and a class mate through abortions and the five different reasons were all as valid as each other in different ways.

Some were later than others, 4 of the 5 individuals concerned were sad but pragmatic, one just felt relief I think.

All had thought long and hard, none took it flippantly. I cannot see how it was anyone else's business and I was happy to be nominated driver.

I am pro choice. This doesn't mean to say that a late term abortion for x reason doesn't make me uncomfortable. But I'd keep my thoughts to myself and 100% support woman having the right to choose. I don't need to agree with their reason. The statistics in this country show that late term abortions for anything other than medical reasons are rare, I can't imagine what kind of position you must be in to make that choice later down the line in pregnancy but it's not one where my personal opinions need to be involved.

I also really don't care for the arguement of woman using it as contraception. Abortions are messy and painful and I don't believe any woman in their right mind would put themselves through this more than necessary and if they do they have far bigger problems and are likely not responsible enough to be bringing a child into this world anyway!

I support abortion as the law stands in the UK, in fact I think it should be easier to obtain an early abortion than it is. I feel no judgement of women and girls who have abortions. I wouldn't have one myself.

My your measure I am not pro choice because -

1. Wouldn't have an abortion myself.
2. I don't support abortion to full term.

The fact you think somebody is not pro choice because they wouldn't have an abortion themselves is particularly bazaar, it's pro CHOICE, the choice to have one or not. You weren't saying pro abortion.

Anyway, I can live with the fact this makes me not pro choice in your eyes.

Isn’t there a point with a very late term abortion where you aren’t terminating a pregnancy, you are inducing a premature birth or performing a C section? Doesn’t that cross over into a different ethical area?

I’m not suggesting this is a frequent occurrence, just that it’s not correct to say that the only ethical concern ever is the wonan’s right to choose.

(Woman’s right)

I think UK abortion law is correct in relation to timescales. I do think they should get rid of the law which requires two doctors to sign off and the caveat that says it will cause harm to the mother's physical or mental health. I believe it should be on demand and no justification needed.

The statistics in this country show that late term abortions for anything other than medical reasons are rare

But if you are in the U.K. an abortion over 24 weeks is also illegal except in limited circumstances.

Not after 15 weeks. That is ghastly.

Or for convenience.

Personally, I wouldn’t have an abortion myself unless for extreme medical reasons. I respect a women’s right to choose but after 14 weeks you have had quite enough time and the child should have a right to life

merry late term abortions happen in two stages mainly.
They inject a substance into the heart of the foetus using ultrasound to guide it into the correct place.
Once no heartbeat has been recorded for X amount of time they arrange a time to induce labour or in rare circumstances a section delivery.
It doesn't happen very quickly, it can take a few days to get it all arranged.

I would describe myself as pro-choice, and I think LtEve’s summary makes sense.

The aspect of it that I struggle to comprehend and reconcile my views with is late-term terminations for non-medical reasons. I understand that in the UK any 3rd trimester termination would be for medical reasons (for either the health of the mother, or severe medical problems with the foetus), but I can see that logically my view that the women has full autonomy over her own body should mean that she has sole ownership of the decision to terminate at any point up to full term. The thought of forcing a woman to continue with a pregnancy she doesn’t want seems totally unacceptable to me, yet the logical extension of that argument is that very late terminations should be readily accessible , which I also find very difficult to comprehend.

I think the difficulty for me is the element of gradually increasing foetal viability. I am absolutely in favour of women making all of the decisions about pregnancy, labour and birth, and that the father has no rights until parental responsibilities kick in for both parents once the baby is born, because otherwise that would give men control over women’s bodies. I guess that should also mean women making their own decisions about termination, even at the stage of viability, though it shocks me from an emotional standpoint.

Called

A foetus doesn’t have rights. Certainly not ones which turn a woman into nothing more than an incubator.

A right to life indeed, ridiculous.

A right to life?
A foetus is not considered to have its own autonomy whilst still in the womb.

I’m not suggesting this is a frequent occurrence, just that it’s not correct to say that the only ethical concern ever is the wonan’s right to choose.

The difficulty for me (and I fully appreciate that this is not necessarily a common view) is that when you remove a woman's bodily autonomy/right to choose at a certain gestational point the result is forced birth.

If I ask myself the question whether there is any situation in which I could ever agree with forced birth the answer is no.

Other people would come to a different answer - i.e. that once you get past a certain point in gestation the life of the fetus takes precedence over the bodily autonomy of a woman and therefore forced birth is morally acceptable.

I am pro choice with no exceptions.

As early as possible as late as needed for any reason at all. I do not think that any exceptions are required.

I also think we should get rid of the two doctor rule and that the fact that we currently have woman who want a termination either unable to access one or having to travel several hours to obtain one where they have already had to travel to other locations is intolerable. This is 2018 in the UK we should be doing better.

A typical situation for a woman who lives in say Wiltshire is, initial appointment in either Bournemouth/Bristol followed by a second appointment in Birmingham and possibly a third appointment there as well this is unacceptable

Wow convience abortions ffs hard to believe it's the 21st century when that line is still used

If you could see further than the end of your own nose you'd know that there are hundreds of reasons a woman has an abortion
I had an abortion because I didn't want anymore children
I had the coil but it "slipped" and I became pregnant
I couldn't physically, mentally, emotionally deal with another pregnancy never mind another child

If you can be bothered look for a page on fb called In her shoes women of the 8th
It might open your eyes

Thank you for clarifying that Takfujuimoto.

I still think that in a very late term abortion, if abortion law was changed to allow abortion for any reason, it would be a difficult ethical area.

I’m not talking about premature babies, but a child who in other circumstances would be expected to survive. I can’t imagine a situation where a healthy mother and baby close to term wouldn’t just be admitted for a c-section - but is that being not pro choice?

@ Takfujuimoto I am so sorry to read about the suffering that you and your baby have been through. At the end of all the moralising and hand-wringing are real people and horribly traumatic circumstances and decisions- I’m so sorry .

I agree with NeedsAsockamnesty above.

I don’t understand those who say ‘up to 20 weeks’ rather than 24. So many things only show up in the 20 week scan (which may also actually take place in week 21).

@formerbabe not physically forced no but trying to pressure a girl/woman ie a rape victim, 1 night stand, young teen mum emotionally/verbally by telling the pregnant, hormonal woman that she won't be able to offer the child any sort of stable upbringing, the baby will be born into a broken home, baby didn't ask to be born etc.
I've seen it on here time and time again. There was a thread not long ago about teen mother's and the amount of woman saying they would try to convince their dds to terminate, 1 even went so far as to say her dd WOULD be getting an abortion.
The view that a rape victim should have an abortion because no woman would ever be able to look at her child without serious issues is another touted often and I personally I find it a bit of a slap in the face to not only the victims but any children of rape who are now grown up and reading these comments themselves.
Of course I fully support any woman who can't face a pregnancy but it's not for every woman.
x

@idobelieveinfairies86

I'm sorry, I genuinely don't understand your post. I don't think you quite understand my point of view or what I was trying to say.

I am pro choice in any circumstances... obviously including rape.

My objection was to those who are pro life except when it comes to rape.

I used to be pro choice BUT...I'm not anymore. OK, so say abortion is only ok in rape situations. What if you didn't report the rape? Who decides if you have actually been raped or if you are trying it on? How do you go about proving that?
Ultimately whatever is happening inside your body belongs to you-not to 2 random doctors, not to the state, not to some guy somewhere-you.
It's not even a moral issue. No child should be uwanted; that is a dire situation that can often cause too much pain. And noone has the right to hold any other woman to account for her own reasons for termination.
Also this:
Late stage abortions are almost exclusively for medical reasons. If people think that late term abortions are frequently had by those who just don’t want a baby, then they don’t understand the reality of the process or the statistics.

I think that abortion is one of those issues where I really do understand both sides. I mean you're basically trying to decide at which point in time a foetus stops being a clump of cells and becomes a sentient being whose life has value.

That's an impossible task although people seem to have no trouble deciding the same thing for other animals.

It's a slippery slope to consider a future where foetus's rights over rule a sentient pregnant woman.
What do you think will happen to children that are from forced births? We are already over whelmed in our population, there are already too many babies and children packed into foster care, many not adopted and barely raised with affection let alone provided with their physical needs.

What happens to the women you condemn to give birth? MH is already the leading cause of maternal mortality I can't see forcing vulnerable women and girls to birth to an unwanted and possibly sick baby will help with that figure.

What happens if people start placing unborn babies ahead of their mothers whilst in utero, what other rules do you think will sneak in? Hmm?
This kind of thinking when implemented only causes the insidious beliefs that women have no bodily autonomy and if we have sex and become pregnant that at a certain point we should shut up and put up.

No thank you very much, YOU have no right to tell me what I can and cannot do with my body and all that it holds.

I will do you the same courtesy and not judge you on what YOU feel is best for your body, life and future.