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Original poster

That many people believe they are pro choice but are not

555 replies

winterstail · 28/04/2018 15:32

My understanding of pro choice is that you support a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy.

Many people claim to be pro choice but then express shock at the reason a woman chooses to terminate.

This isn't pro choice then, is it?

OP posts:
NotAgainYoda · 28/04/2018 18:09

I am Pro - 'Don't be a dickhead and have sex if you don't want to handle the possible consequences

The child bears the consequences. Children do not deserve that

DianaPrincessOfThemyscira · 28/04/2018 18:10

Pro choice is supporting the woman’s right to choose. Which I do. 100%.

If a woman chooses to terminate at a time when I wouldn’t, those are different choices, neither less valid than the other.

RiverRose · 28/04/2018 18:10

I'm pro-choice - without exceptions. As early or as late as it needs to be.

I don't need to like you, approve of your life or decisions or not. I don't need to see you as a victim or a villain.
It is not my business whether you have a really great rock solid reason or no reason at all.
Your right to a termination, at any time, should be yours for any reason at all. It is your body and your life and has absolutely nothing to do with me or my feelings.

Juells · 28/04/2018 18:10

I can completely agree when the pregnancy results from rape

You do realise when you say this that the hidden message is basically women who willingly have sex are slags who deserve all they get.

The un-hidden message is that nobody should be forced to carry the child of somebody violent who raped you.

Having said that, I am pro-choice and that's how I'll be voting.

I think one consequence of the Irish abortion laws is that the support for single mothers is probably better than in the UK - it had to be. You can't tell women they can't have an abortion and then not support them and the baby. It's just under €200 a week AFAIK, plus rent allowance as well. That's a problem at the moment because of the lack of available places to rent, and the cost. In Dublin the rent allowance is about €230 a week, but it's not easy to find anywhere at that price.

NapQueen · 28/04/2018 18:10

No one should have more say over a woman's body than that woman. And any woman who gets to late term pregnancy and cannot continue the pregnancy for whatever reason has my utmost sympathy. What she is about to go through is not something I would wish on an enemy so for her to feel that is her only option is ger choice and I support that.

BlancheM · 28/04/2018 18:10

I'm pro-choice in so far as I wouldn't have one myself but I wouldn't like to live in a society where women don't have bodily autonomy. So in the legal sense, yes I'm glad of the choice, but I can't pretend I don't have moral reservations. I know someone who has had many terminations. That's her right and prerogative. I did have a friend who had an abortion at the cut-off point because she found out late and thought the father wasn't her husband's. She said she was relieved when it was over and hasn't regretted it but knowing what she'll have gone through...it even upset me and it's not even my business. Speaking of which, is this something we actually need to air an opinion on? After all, it's a personal decision.

JAPAB · 28/04/2018 18:11

According to this thread, pro-life means you're against abortion totally and pro-choice must mean you accept a woman's right to choose abortion at any time, for any reason.

And of course a person can accept 'a woman's right to choose' without having to agree with hger choice.

In a similar sort of way that you can accept someone having a legal right to commit adultery, this should not become a banned activity, and yet, without contradiction, disaprove or be shocked by a particular person making that choice.

Rachie1973 · 28/04/2018 18:12

fcekinghell
If my DD got pregnant at say 16, when still at school, not got a job, living at home etc, then I'd prefer for her to have an abortion. People will say its her choice but I'm sorry, I'd drag her there by the hair if I had to and my mother would have done the same. My mum installed the fear of god in me and I was on the pill within a week of getting my first boyfriend (now DH).

Oh see I sat my daughter down, when she came to me to tell me she was pregnant. She's 16, she starts her GCSEs next month.

We spoke about her options, and how both would impact her now, and in the future. Then she went away and thought about what she was going to do. As you say it is HER choice, just as it's mine to choose to support her or not.

I won't be dragging her by her hair anywhere. I won't punish her for daring to be sexually active. I won't be shaming her for wanting to have sex. I won't be humiliating her for fucking up her protection.

Equally, I would have helped her book her appointment and gone with her if she'd chosen a termination.

formerbabe · 28/04/2018 18:14

The un-hidden message is that nobody should be forced to carry the child of somebody violent who raped you

I totally agree with that. I'm not saying women who have been raped should be denied abortions.

I'm saying I hate the argument "I'm pro life unless a woman has been raped"...it's misogynistic bullshit.

Smeddum · 28/04/2018 18:15

And of course a person can accept 'a woman's right to choose' without having to agree with her choice

This, absolutely this.

MrsHathaway · 28/04/2018 18:16

The British termination rates are consistent with published contraception effectiveness. Obviously some people continue with an unplanned pregnancy resulting from a contraception failure, and some people conceive without contraception and end up terminating, but by and large the orders of magnitude are consistent.

We need a middle ground term for "pro choice as long as it's an approved choice" because it's a very broad church.

I also think it's important to distinguish between "I think that's a bad reason to choose to terminate" and "I don't think that should be a qualifying reason to terminate" because the former still allows for others' right to choose.

Like a pp I despise talk of a rape exemption. The embryo doesn't care whether its conception was wanted or consensual or brutal or loving or pornographic. If you exempt rape you're passing judgement on women's sexual behaviour and handing down punishment for deviating from prudish ideals. Either the fetus has an inalienable right to life, in which case sorry about your rape but you're having a baby; or the woman has an inalienable right to body autonomy, in which case she chooses full stop.

In an ideal world no pregnancy would be unwanted so there would be zero terminations. But the way to approach that aim is to eliminate the things which cause unwanted pregnancies such as abusive relationships, poverty, incompatible medical conditions, poor access to healthcare including contraception, etc, and not by reducing access to terminations.

RiverRose · 28/04/2018 18:19

@Rachie1973 Well done for being a decent and understanding parent to your daughter.

A baby at 16 is not the end of the world.

My baby (that I had at 16) is now 13 years old. Shockingly, I have a job, a husband, a nice life and lovely kids. I guess I didn't get the memo about the ruination of my life.

BlancheM · 28/04/2018 18:19

Rachie you sound like a brilliant mother. Good luck and congratulations to your daughter!

TotHappy · 28/04/2018 18:21

I agree with that MrsHathaway, but at the moment in Uk law we have a middle ground surely, where neither the Mother's nor the foetus's rights are inalienable. And although that's messy, I think it's right

notWithoutFault · 28/04/2018 18:22

This thread has become quite worrying.

Fodder for "pro-life"?

BlancheM · 28/04/2018 18:23

Why, notWithout?

Bluelady · 28/04/2018 18:24

It's nonsense to say if every pregnancy was wanted there would be zero terminations, some greatly wanted pregnancies are terminated because of catastrophic feotal abnormality.

Good for you, Rachie, that's what being a supportive mum is all about.

Rachie1973 · 28/04/2018 18:24

BlancheM
Rachie you sound like a brilliant mother. Good luck and congratulations to your daughter!
RiverRose
@Rachie1973 Well done for being a decent and understanding parent to your daughter.

Thanks, I'm not brilliant lol. I'm normal. Sometimes I get it right, sometimes I fuck it up. I do try though :) She's the youngest of my 6, so lots of experience, and I still don't really know what I'm doing :)

notWithoutFault · 28/04/2018 18:29

@BlancheM

Because thinking abortions are ok should come with caveats.

Many posters have said things like "I'm pro-choice - without exceptions. As early or as late as it needs to be."

Exceptions are needed!

AcrossthePond55 · 28/04/2018 18:29

I'm pro choice in as much as the State needs to stay out of issues surrounding a person's body. The 'morality' surrounding abortion is between the individual and their God if they believe, and karma or the universe if they don't.

I have the right to decide what is right for my mind and my body. I don't have the right to decide what is right for anyone else's. The same goes for any type of medical treatment and decisions to stop treatment as well.

goodbyeeee · 28/04/2018 18:34

The minute you start putting caveats on another woman's choice that are based on your own belief of what an "acceptable" reason to have an abortion is you are imposing those beliefs in order to restrict another woman's choice.

You can judge the reasons all you want (although personally I don't think the reasons matter and it should be purely between the woman and her doctor ) but if you are genuinely pro-choice that's where it ends - as a personal judgment /belief but not a legal restriction.

Takfujuimoto · 28/04/2018 18:35

I am pro choice, I agree with abortions available from conception to term and I don't see the need to know why a woman wants one.
I don't have the level of arrogance needed to believe I have the right to any authority or demand caveats to be put upon another woman seeking to end a pregnancy.

With my third we had the anomaly scan at 21 weeks, everything looked fine but they couldn't see it all so we were booked in again at 22weeks, they picked up an anomaly but it wasn't clear enough to know exactly what was wrong.
It was serious enough to have an emergency appointment with a specialist in an out of area hospital the Monday after our Friday scan.
Scans are not infallible and after a 3 more scans they still couldn't give us something specific and strongly recommended an amniocentesis because some of the results from the scans were heavily connected to certain syndromes/genetic conditions.

I had the amnio at 24 weeks dead on and after 2 days and then 4 we were cleared for everything they tested for.
If it had come back positive we would have terminated.

I must admit that the team that looked after me were very quick to arrange further scans and testing once a problem had come to attention but I can respect the fact this doesn't always happen, I can also say with some certainty that there have been many other people in the same situation we found ourselves in but ended up with unfortunate amnio results post 24 weeks. Non of which is under their control.

It was quite apparent after birth that baby was deformed and had multiple heath issues that hadn't been detected from scans as well as the known issues. He has suffered terribly in his short life and during the immediate aftermath of his birth, surgery and testing I can honestly say whilst watching him battle to live in PICU I felt like the cruelest creature bringing him to life and allowing this to happen.

There were many times I found myself wondering if terminating at 25 weeks wasn't a kinder thing to have done.

Rachie1973 · 28/04/2018 18:39

Takfujuimoto
I am pro choice, I agree with abortions available from conception to term and I don't see the need to know why a woman wants one.
I don't have the level of arrogance needed to believe I have the right to any authority or demand caveats to be put upon another woman seeking to end a pregnancy.

I agree with you. And I'm sorry for your experience and your loss x

notWithoutFault · 28/04/2018 18:41

How about the gestation? @goodbyeeee

Can you say that at some point choice is enough but this changes and you need a 'better' reason beyond?

goodbyeeee · 28/04/2018 18:43

notwithoutfault not in my view no.