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Original poster

That many people believe they are pro choice but are not

555 replies

winterstail · 28/04/2018 15:32

My understanding of pro choice is that you support a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy.

Many people claim to be pro choice but then express shock at the reason a woman chooses to terminate.

This isn't pro choice then, is it?

OP posts:
birdsdestiny · 29/04/2018 08:37

Yes I had a miscarriage that had to be medically induced. Strangely enough I didn't see any pro life people campaigning for research and funding to improve the miscarriage rate. Apparently those babies don't count. Why don't they care about those babies? Could it be its about controlling women's decisions over their own bodies rather than any particular concern for the unborn child.

SoyDora · 29/04/2018 08:38

Once you see a 12 week foetus on a scan, it changes you - or many people

I have 2 children and am pregnant with my third. I am still pro choice.

JacquesHammer · 29/04/2018 08:38

IMO abortion should be completely easy at the beginning, no doctors opinions needed. After that, abortion when a problem shows up in a scan, or if there's a medical problem

How are you defining “beginning”?

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 29/04/2018 08:38

I didn’t say I was against abortion for medical grounds. I said that at the outset.

I also accept mistakes of contraception happen.

I am pro-choice to that extent.

But the cut off should be much lower IMHO.

The women who changed her mind as described above? Disgraceful behaviour. Utterly abhorrent. But that is because in my head the unborn child has the same rights.

If you had told me I would think this way when I was in my twenties I would have laughed. Maybe it’s age. Maybe it’s being a mother and the way it’s changed me (me, not anyone else).

There is nothing more for me to say. I need not justify my feelings any more than anyone else.

ILikeMyChickenFried · 29/04/2018 08:38

I find comments that like rather insidious. Are you suggesting that pro-choice folk aren’t parents?

Don't be daft, I can't speak for the poster you've quoted but she even says "or many people" ie not all people....

JacquesHammer · 29/04/2018 08:39

Don't be daft, I can't speak for the poster you've quoted but she even says "or many people" ie not all people...

So maybe “some” people would have been a better choice. Rather than an unfounded assertion of “many”?

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 29/04/2018 08:40

Great soy - good for you! Hooray!

What I’m saying is MY feelings changed after seeing MY babies on a scan. Forever. The moment I saw a flickering heartbeat at 8 weeks I could never abort unless I had to medically.

ememem84 · 29/04/2018 08:40

I’m very much pro choice. It’s not a choice I think I could make, unless I had to, especially now after having ds, but the option should be there.

I work with someone who is proud that she’s had 3 abortions. She’s very much anti-babies. While I was pregnant last year she told me that the baby was a true parasite (living off me and taking my nutrients) and kept reminding me that I had until 24 weeks to do something about it.

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 29/04/2018 08:42

I don’t think so bird. I had a miscarriage and begged for a medical abortion and had to wait a horrific 10 days.

It was utterly awful. My baby had died and abortion arguments or not, nothing would change that.

I suspect I could have received an abortion quicker had my baby not died. My baby mattered hugely but it died

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 29/04/2018 08:45

emem that’s disgusting behaviour by your colleague. So insensitive.

She should keep her feelings to herself.

My friend had an abortion at 15 weeks as “it wasn’t the right time”. She already had a child. She was thinking of another. This little one was an inconvenience. I was utterly horrified she had an abortion. So so sad. I never told her and she has no idea how I feel and we are still friends. She is now TTC again.

ILikeMyChickenFried · 29/04/2018 08:46

So maybe “some” people would have been a better choice. Rather than an unfounded assertion of “many”?

There's no need to be pedantic. Many means a lot of people but not necessarily the majority. Lots of people do change their mind after seeing a fetus at 12 weeks plus.

birdsdestiny · 29/04/2018 08:48

Yes I agree, as the miscarriage that I had mattered hugely to me. So why aren't the pro lifers waving their banners to improve the miscarriage rate. Why aren't they waving emotive banners about all the babies dying. The only answer I can see is that they don't actually care about babies they care about controlling woman's decisions over their own bodies.

RebelRogue · 29/04/2018 08:48

And I'm a mother. I have been pregnant.

And ? So have I. Not just that but as I said before,I'm only alive because abortion was illegal.
I'm still pro choice. And I think it's awful that a terrified 17 yo had to starve herself to hide a pregnancy and then forced to give birth to a baby she never wanted. That she didn't dare feed or hold or even look at the baby for fear she wouldn't be able to let go in the end.

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 29/04/2018 08:50

To be fair, it’s probably too hard to tackle. In my case I think my miscarriage was an error from the start. It was never going to be.

Repeated miscarriages are different and I agree need more funding but it’s a whole other discussion...

I think pro-life campaigners might struggle...!

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 29/04/2018 08:51

I am saying rebel that 17 year old should get her act together and have an abortion PDQ.

No one should bugger around until 20 weeks.

JacquesHammer · 29/04/2018 08:51

I think the only person who is qualified to decide whether it’s the right time to give birth is the mother.

There are so many reasons why timing can be important to have a child.

ememem84 · 29/04/2018 08:53

called I ended up having to tell her to shove her opinions. Her not having her 3 babies (or inconveniences/parasites as she put it) was her choice. Me having ds (who was sort of planned and much much wanted - we’d been not preventing pregnancy happening for almost 2 years by the time I got pregnant and we’d almost given up hope that it’d happen and I was looking into other options - tests to see if there were issues etc) was my choice.

Juells · 29/04/2018 08:54

@JacquesHammer

IMO abortion should be completely easy at the beginning, no doctors opinions needed. After that, abortion when a problem shows up in a scan, or if there's a medical problem

How are you defining “beginning”?

I thought I was clear? Up to 12 weeks. A doctor shouldn't be necessary to sign off on abortion at that stage, it just delays everything and slows down the whole system.

As for all the discussion about abused children... they were never going to be aborted, and their existence has nothing to do with the availability or lack of abortion. Their parents are either arseholes, or their lives are so totally out of control that they'd never be organised enough to arrange an abortion no matter how late in the pregnancy it was allowed.

sausagedogsmakechipolatas · 29/04/2018 08:55

I’m pro-choice. ie, I support another woman’s right to choose even if it isn’t a choice I would make for myself.
Her body, her choice. Whilst a foetus is dependent on the mother for life, it is not a person in its own right.

A 24 week cut off is all well and good but that assumes we have readily available resources in the NHS, 20 week anomaly scans actually happen at 20w, everyone finds out about the pregnancy before 24w (finding out later is rare but it does happen) and so on. Some babies do live when born so early but most do not, and rarely without significant challenges.

I’ve had a termination. At 16w, a week after I found out, so I was effectively induced.
I have no regrets whatsoever; I was 17, homeless, had no family support and was not in a good place with my mental health.
It would have been a disaster for us both and all I feel is relief, even twenty years and three babies later.

mirime · 29/04/2018 08:56

@Juells Who can't get themselves organised in three months?

Someone in denial. A woman with irregular periods. Someone using contraception who hasn't realised it's failed. I'm sure we could all list potential reasons.

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow, yes, pregnancy changed me, seeing my baby on the scans changed me. But it actually made me more pro-choice seeing my baby and realising that for some people that would induce horror rather than the overwhelming joy I felt. I also had a bit of a difficult pregnancy and it left me feeling that nobody should be forced to go through that unwillingly - let's not forget every pregnancy has the potential to be difficult, to be damaging and women can be left with long term or permanent damage to their physical or mental health.

surferjet · 29/04/2018 08:57

Pro lifers aren’t interested in miscarriages because they see them as ‘acts of nature’ ( or god ) so just a normal part of life - abortion is different because the woman is interfering with nature ( & god ) and ending a life that doesn’t need ending.

NotTakenUsername · 29/04/2018 08:59

“Red herring” is an odd choice of phrase? Any procedure that is over quickly and without need for surgical intervention is always going to be mentally easier - you took “mentally easier” to mean emotionally. I was more referring to the mental load.

No I will stand by the original turn if phrase. a deliberate diversion of attention with the intention of trying to abandon the original argument.

It is factual to say it is physically easier, but it is emotive to make a blanket statement that it is mentally easier.

Mentally some women take on childbirth, surgery, etc etc and it doesn’t affect them at all - other women find taking a smear test so challenging that they defer and defer or maybe even avoid the procedure completely, regardless of the possible risks.

You should have been more explicit if referring to ‘the mental load’, that was not at all clear.

Cascade220 · 29/04/2018 08:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JacquesHammer · 29/04/2018 08:59

I thought I was clear? Up to 12 weeks. A doctor shouldn't be necessary to sign off on abortion at that stage, it just delays everything and slows down the whole system

Thanks for clarifying.

JacquesHammer · 29/04/2018 09:01

No I will stand by the original turn if phrase. a deliberate diversion of attention with the intention of trying to abandon the original argument

I’m afraid you’re categorically wrong. There was no “deliberate diversion”. I’m sorry if you found my post unclear but suggesting it was deliberate is unfounded. Especially as you can clearly see from my other posts I am “pro-choice” without caveats.