That many people believe they are pro choice but are not

[winterstail]

My understanding of pro choice is that you support a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy.

Many people claim to be pro choice but then express shock at the reason a woman chooses to terminate.

This isn't pro choice then, is it?

Because the earlier the abortion the “easier” it is both physically and mentally.

Why is it easier mentally the earlier the procedure is executed?

...abortion is not violence. Your analogies are flawed. You compared it with robbery at first which is illegal and then smacking which in certain conditions can be.

You misunderstand my point. My point was that if someone believes abortion to be murder, then you can’t also reasonably expect them to also believe people should have the choice to have an abortion.

Also, your point that abortion isn’t violent is only true if you believe a foetus to be no more significant than any other collection of cells in your body.

Controversy I have the unpopular opinion that just because medical intervention could keep someone alive it doesn't mean it should.

Ah get over yourself. I don't know a single person who believes that. No doubt there are some, but it's not an unpopular opinion.

I genuinely don't understand how anyone can say 'any time, any reason'. It's about basic morality. Yes, I'd have had a late abortion if my life depended on it, and others should have that option as well. But the reasons would have to be very pressing for it to be morally acceptable to me. Morally acceptable, for me, is up to twelve weeks or sooner if possible. Later if scans have given cause for worry about the mental or physical health of the child. Later again if the mother's life is at risk. But I wouldn't kill a slug. Why should I suddenly feel differently because it's a human foetus we're discussing?

name of course. What's your point? This is my opinion and these are my beliefs. I keep them to myself but this thread is a discussion of those beliefs

People want to adopt babies. Not older kids.(sadly).

I was completely pro-choice before having my own kids. Once you see a 12 week foetus on a scan, it changes you - or many people.

I think people who have abortion after 16 weeks are unspeakably cruel. These are my feelings and I can't change them however much they may upset people on here. I never tell anyone these feelings. But I cry for these babies

If men got pregnant then we would not even be having this debate. Abortion would be an acceptable freely available thing full stop.

I think that's nonsense. It's no more morally acceptable for a man to abort a baby than a woman.

Pro-life campaigners aren't women haters. They don't say that a woman should go through with the pregnancy and birth of an unwanted baby because she's a woman and therefore doesn't matter, it's because they believe the innocent life of the unborn baby matters equally. If men were able to be pregnant they wouldn't suddenly be more important than the baby.

I think people who judge others about this are unspeakably cruel.

Why is it easier mentally the earlier the procedure is executed?

Less arrangements needed, if done via tablet no surgical procedure. Surely any form of treatment is mentally easier if you can medicate rather than need a surgical procedure?

Calledyoulastnight

Are you also talking about abortions for medical reasons? Defects are often not visible until the 20 week scan. It could also be argued bringing a baby to term for them to suffer from the moment they are born to the moment they die is far crueler. How do you reconcile the two?

Very, very few people have second trimester abortions in situations without severe problems for the baby. I would imagine that the remaining numbers must be heavily represented by people in a very bad way. I can't see many women having a case of failed contraception, hanging around for a few months, having a 12w scan and then deciding the time was right to abort.

I don't agree with abortion but on the whole women choosng it have my sympathy not my judgement.

How on earth can you police the reasons? Seriously.
How do you know If a woman has been raped.
You dont.
Should she he denied a termination because it can't be proved?
It was air until after the trial and then do what with the unwanted kid?
Put it into care with all the rest.

Juelles- you wouldn't kill a slug, really? Well You are in a majority of one n because everyone I know uses devices to kill slugs, everyone .
You can have some of my slug pellets if you like, they sell like got cakes where I live.

I take it you are vegan too like my dd1, seeing as though you are against hurting any life form.

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow keep your tears for the kids in care,for the kids that were born and are abused,neglected or worse. The kids with pretty shitty life but not shitty enough for SS to seriously step in because they are so overworked and overstretched. And because there's always a child somewhere that's barely surviving through even worse conditions.
My heart breaks for some of the kids i work with. I'm sick and tired of making referrals and filling in forms of concern and behaviour logs and what not and nothing ever changes.

What do you do for the kids that are already here and suffering? How many kids have you adopted? Donated to food banks,volunteer for kids charities etc?

I can't get over all the hollier than thou nonsense posted on here.
I myself refused medical tests whilst pregnant because I knew I wanted to keep my child whatever the outcome.
I respect the right of others to not want a disabled child.

I work with children and I can categorically say that there are a great deal of men and women who should not be having children.
Don't restrict abortion.
If anything educate people and discourage them from having children.
So many unloved kids around and not just from poor families.
Being wealthy doesn't make you a good parent either.

rebel so my feelings on abortion should relate to how much I donate to food banks?

I can't change HOW I feel about this! I understand both sides of the argument. Hell, I get that there are unwanted kids and kids in care and how awful that is. I get it.

What I'm saying is that my gut feelings are that abortion after something like 12/13 weeks is hideous.

I'm sorry you don't like that. I'm not parading outside abortion clinics. I'm not even discussing it with friends.

But I believe unborn children have rights equal to a mother. And I'm a mother. I have been pregnant.

Reberouge- here here.
I'm sick and tired of all the romanticising on here.
Ss are dealing with kids whose life is in danger and need to find somewhere, anywhere, to put that child that night as to go home with a parent is life-threatening.
The kids who probably won't be killed that evening have to make do. It's tough shit, but posters carry on with your bullshit ideas that all children receive love and support and that ' somebody will love and want them'.

Less arrangements needed, if done via tablet no surgical procedure. Surely any form of treatment is mentally easier if you can medicate rather than need a surgical procedure?

I understand physically it is easier, but I think the ‘mental’ part of the proclamation is a bit of a red herring and more to do with the individual pregnant woman, than the stage her pregnancy has reached prior to abortion.

Actually it is.

I'm pro choice, I know of a girl who terminated because it was twins. Was desperate for a baby, tried for years, twins, then changed her mind. Her reason, to me, was stupid. But I still support her right to choose.

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow
Are you going to answer my question regarding abortion of babies, who would otherwise go through horrendous suffering?

*This is my opinion and these are my beliefs. I keep them to myself but this thread is a discussion of those beliefs

People want to adopt babies. Not older kids.(sadly).

I was completely pro-choice before having my own kids. Once you see a 12 week foetus on a scan, it changes you - or many people.

I think people who have abortion after 16 weeks are unspeakably cruel. These are my feelings and I can't change them however much they may upset people on here. I never tell anyone these feelings. But I cry for these babies*

You can have whatever opinion you like provided it's not translated into a legal restriction on someone else. No-one is forcing you to terminate so why would you force another woman you give birth to a child that is either unwanted or has a condition incompatible with life?

And I say that as a mother of two and someone that has had fertility treatment and 3 miscarriages. After my third miscarriage for which I had to have repeat ERPCs I had to drive past pro-life campaigners holding up pictures as I left the hospital. All of those experiences cemented my pro-choice stance.

I find people are only pro life, until the child is born.

Family on benefits to support themselves because childcare is too expensive for them, no family support. = Lazy mother should never have had kids.

Family need social housing because they are priced out of private rentals = lazy mother, shouldn't have more than you could afford.

School places lessening, having to travel further than can manage = well what did you expect.

No money because universal credits sets people up to fail. Need food banks to survive = why is my taxes paying for your children!

That's pro birth. Not pro life.

It's naive to think all children will be born into a loving, caring and nurturing world.

As always, posters are being unnecessarily hostile towards to lone poster who oppose the views of the masses.

I understand physically it is easier, but I think the ‘mental’ part of the proclamation is a bit of a red herring and more to do with the individual pregnant woman, than the stage her pregnancy has reached prior to abortion

“Red herring” is an odd choice of phrase? Any procedure that is over quickly and without need for surgical intervention is always going to be mentally easier - you took “mentally easier” to mean emotionally. I was more referring to the mental load.

Clary, what research do you have to suggest that pro-life supporters are also the people who penalise and criticize those with poor standards of living?

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow

name of course. What's your point? This is my opinion and these are my beliefs. I keep them to myself but this thread is a discussion of those beliefs

Exactly. Are we supposed to just shut up if we don't agree with abortion up to the day before full-term?

@Belindabauer
Juelles- you wouldn't kill a slug, really? Well You are in a majority of one n because everyone I know uses devices to kill slugs, everyone .
You can have some of my slug pellets if you like, they sell like got cakes where I live.

No, I wouldn't kill a slug. And I wouldn't use slug pellets, as they kill hedgehogs and birds that eat the dead slugs.

I can't stand the infantilising of women that's implicit in the 'abortion should be available until the last minute' attitude. Like women are special little snowflakes who can't be expected to act responsibly. Who can't get themselves organised in three months?

IMO abortion should be completely easy at the beginning, no doctors opinions needed. After that, abortion when a problem shows up in a scan, or if there's a medical problem. That's my opinion, and as calledyou said, this thread is about discussing opinions. I'm as entitled to my opinion as you are.

Once you see a 12 week foetus on a scan, it changes you - or many people

I find comments that like rather insidious. Are you suggesting that pro-choice folk aren’t parents?

I am fully pro-choice with no caveats. I have had a child. I’m also infertile. If I got pregnant (which would be a contraceptive failure) I would have an abortion.