Just got told that I'm racist toward my own child

[jumpiin]

I was at the park with my son, not many people there just one other lady with her two kids. I smiled at her on the way in and she gave me a dirty look. Bit strange but just ignored it. I was playing and we were having a great time, we were laughing and I called him a cheeky monkey affectionately. This lady storms over to me and tells me not say that around her children (she was black for the record) she was very rude and stood right in my face. I asked her what the problem was and she gave me a big speech I can't exactly how she worded it as I'm fuming but she basically said, me calling my own baby a cheeky monkey was racist because he's mixed, she also said that I was ignorant and that I needed to educate myself because I know nothing about my own child's race. She then told me that I'm "just another one of those girls who thinks a brown baby is an accessory". She then stormed off and I've come straight home as the afternoon was ruined and I'm still reeling! I assume she made these assumptions because I'm white, I've taken the time to learn about my DPs culture and DS is learning to speak English and Swahili and as for seeing him as an accessory that's just ridiculous, he is the most precious and important thing in my life. Aibu to think that she was in the wrong here and that she is a part of the problem? And to think that I can call my child whatever I want as long as there's no malice behind it?!

I don't have a lot to learn.

I think this is at the heart of it, jumplin. You've decided you are one of the good ones, nothing new to learn, and so you will attack anything that challenges that you on this.

Not everyone that challenges you will be right. Some people who challenge you may well not express that challenge in a nice way. But some of them may well be right in what they say to you, and I think you getting defensive means that you aren't willing to admit you don't know everything yet.

I think you are wrong in this case, jumplin, but that at this point is almost irrelevant to the way you've handled it. I think for the sake of your child, whose experiences as they grow up you will never fully understand because you have never personally experienced it, you need to be open to at least listening to what people have to say.

Wow - really surprised by some of the responses.

My dh is Afro Caribbean, born and raised here - he always calls our 3 mixed heritage dcs monkeys or cheeky monkeys!

It’s interesting to read that people with Black partners have been told to NOT use the phrase

Did the woman handle it badly YES

But actually we don’t know what she has experienced here , as white peoples we can’t even imagine it

A term to avoid me thinks

Never heard your a star, towards a Jewish child. Better ban star of the day at schools then

Please read what I originally said. I said it would be insensitive to give a Jewish child/person a t shirt to wear with a yellow star, even if your intention is kind.

Oh she’s clearly just looking to be offended and probably has an issue with a white woman ‘stealing’ a black man and having kids, as well. I used to have a black boyfriend at university and a girl in the Afro Caribbean society had a HUGE problem with me because of this. She even accused me of cultural appropriation for joining in with innocently dancing to r ‘n’ b music with my boyfriend at a nightclub

I have friends from lots of different ethnicities and this is the only incidence like this I’ve ever come across, so I’m sure it’s not common and won’t happen to you again - it must have been awful! Just forget about it

(Fully agree the other lady was being racist towards the OP to accuse her of seeing her child as an accessory and to clearly deliberately misinterpret the monkey comment.)

It's always reassuring on threads like this to see that Mumsnet is much more ethnically diverse than I thought it was.

Yes I understand that the term monkey is used to negatively describe POC, by racists, and I can see why some are offended by the term.

However I will still use it with white or olive skinned ds, as no term quite accurately describes him like cheeky monkey. Somehow cheeky thing, cheeky sod, cheeky dog, somehow does not fit the bill. A monkey accurately describes him, playful, cheeky. I would not use it for others kids and don't see a problem with parents using it for their kids, as I said, it is a universal accepted term of endearment.

OK. Here's the bottom line. If you discover that something you say has the potential to upset someone, and there are loads of readily available alternatives, then just stop saying it. It's not a hill to die on. My ds is called Patrick. We used lots of abbreviations for him when he was a baby, including Paddy. We discovered that it upset his granddad because it reminded him of the anti Irish abuse he had been subjected to as an immigrant. So we stopped using it, even though we liked it and thought is was cute. Loads of other shortenings-absolutely no big deal. Surely the same should apply to "monkey". Loads of other endearments are available.

It's not upsetting anyone though in my family or friends. I tend to call ds cheeky monkey in private at home when he's messing about and being naughty. As I said it is a universally accepted term of endearment. This is getting silly.

I am not aware that the term cheeky monkey is a banned term as it, but can see it going that way reading some of the posts on here.

She didn't like you before you spoke because she gave you a dirty look. Then she said 'you are just one of those girls who thinks a brown baby is an accessory'.

She had a problem with you, not the other way round. She's the racist one. Ignore it.

for you OP.

"It's not upsetting anyone though in my family or friends"
Good. That's not my criterion for not saying things that upset people, though. If I say something upsetting I want to to be deliberate!

"I am not aware that the term cheeky monkey is a banned term as it"
That's not a criterion for not saying things that might upset someone either.......

Agree with Sandy . Yes, she went about it the wrong way but when you face racism every day, you become sensitive. As a white woman in Korea, I have become more and more prickly about people saying stuff about my skin colour, size/shape of eyes, body shape, whatever. It becomes really dehumanising after a while.

Having had this for only a few years of my life (and not in my country of birth), I can only imagine that it’s way worse when you’ve had it your whole life. I was shocked at how shitty even indirect racism makes me feel.

All the people who shout about PC Gone Mad etc should walk a mile in someone else’s shoes.

Upon learning that the term “cheeky monkey” can be seen as racist, I’m sure we can all be sensible with it. It’s not hard and doesn’t affect my life greatly. I’m not going to claim to be so attached to the term “cheeky monkey” that I couldn’t possibly alter the way I use it. Here’s my rules (I’m mixed race):

For kids in my family that know I’m not racist - ok to say cheeky monkey

For mixed group of kids with some white children that I don’t know too well - probably also ok to call the group cheeky monkeys

For a single black/mixed child that I don’t know - NOT ok to say cheeky monkey (I would avoid it here)

Obviously, the OPs situation is different, but I think the discussions that have come out of it are good.

Those of you who are still troll hunting, why don't you just report the thread? It's not difficult. Does it make you feel clever that you can spot trolls a mile off?? You can never know whether an OP is true or not, because you don't know them in RL. It's a good discussion anyway.

Thinking about it, the woman sounds like she's suffered a lot of racial abuse and hearing the word 'monkey' being used to talk to a child of mixed race could well have been a trigger, I agree with BertrandRussell on that point. On the accessory comment, she might well have thought that you adopted a mixed race child, although that doesn't happen very often now, as SS don't approve of mixed race adoptions now.

I used to use the term Cheeky Monkey years ago but now I think it's had it day so I use other terms. It caused me no effort and no anguish to use another term. 🤷🏻‍♀️
I can't get her up about these things.

Hi there,
Can we re-iterate that troll hunting is not allowed on MN, not even if you think you are 100% in the right...
Please report in if you have concerns, and keep any suspicions to yourself on the thread.

I had a black colleague once, who was married to a white man. Her MIL said that when they had a baby it would be like bouncing a little monkey on your lap.

The words little and monkey are not specifically racist...but when used to describe a black or mixed race child it changes the meaning... context is everything.

Her MIL would not have said that if my colleague was white .... and she didn't think it was racist or inappropriate either.

When it was cold I used to say it's a bit nippy. Until I heard that was/could be seen as racist towards Chinese people. I no longer use the word. The same as the term nitty gritty. I had no racist intentions, but if a term could be perceived on a certain way and cause offence, why continue using it.

My parents came to the UK in the 60s. Some of my mum's white colleagues (who were student nurses/nurses) asked where her tail was.

I would also add that the offence comes when a white person uses the phrase...not when black or mixed race people do.

For example... you get these black American rappers using the N word ..and it seems acceptable....though I personally hate it. There would be an outcry if a white rapper did it.

I've heard disabled comedians make disabled jokes. They can get away with it. An able bodied comedian would by lynched.

"When it was cold I used to say it's a bit nippy. Until I heard that was/could be seen as racist towards Chinese people."
If anything. Japanese people, not Chinese. But I really think that one is in Winterval territory.

‘nip’ is used about Japanese people (because Japan is Nippon in Japanese) not Chinese.

I can’t imagine anyone would be offended because it’s used more like ‘a nip’ rather than as an adjective.