To be shocked that this is happening in Britain in 2018?

[Spending2muchtimeonMN]

Masked men try to prevent women from attending a lawful, public meeting to discuss the impact of proposed changes to the law on women's rights:

www.facebook.com/julie.bindel/videos/pcb.10160135970780316/10160135907955316

I think it is pretty incredulous that we are living in times where a man can tell us that our reproductive systems are worthless and this does not make us a woman, and our reproductive system ensures that the very same men are punish us for our biology with a lack of pay and opportunity.

If we can not find a way to ensure there is equality of pay, equality of respect of our bodies and reproduction, and more over the law will no longer protect women and our rights then we have a HUGE and GROWING problem.

You would think having a female PM would help, but it is all lip service (puppet on a string pulled by the men in the back) unless the changes actually happen.

In future, the girls of tomorrow will refuse to use their reproductive systems unless there is a guarantee that they will not be penalised for it.

The transgender issue is a side show for the bigger issue than we still have massive inequality in our country, and it is getting worse incredibly, not better.

angry

My view is that I only want a woman to do my smear test because I would feel afraid and intimidated by a man (including one that was dressed as a woman) It is an intensely private and vulnerable moment. There is always a risk of rape, and of sexual assault from a man but obviously but it goes far deeper than that. A woman whom shares the same anatomy as me understands my body, she is gentle, she is careful, she knows it is awkward so she is mindful of how she speaks to me, she reassures me, she avoids my eyes afterwards as I am slightly embarrassed. I talk to her openly about my sex life, my health worries. I know she is asking for professional reasons, I would not have this bond with a man, most of all she does her damn best to make it as painless as possible and as quick. She derives no pleasure but simply does her job, I know this instinctively.

In the changing rooms I would not want to be staring at a flacid penis whilst I am changing with my children for swimming, obviously an erected one would be far worse. I do not wish my young children to be exposed to men's genitals.

I am extremely uncomfortable getting changed in shops with men, especially the shared changing rooms. Young girls use them too, and can be exposed to all sorts of danger that they are ill prepared to defend themselves against.

So no, it is not acceptable for someone to simply say they are feminine, actually being feminine is much much deeper than that.

I'm also not sure why I would care that someone had a female brain, if I believe that existed. I can't see their brain so would have no way of knowing if they had one in any case.

The level of "budge up and be accommodating" that's being expected of women here is unreasonable.

you know what I would prefer a male nurse to do a smear than a TIM

I also support the right to peaceful protest - standing outside an event you disagree with, handing out leaflets etc, singing/chanting/shouting slogans, all that's fair enough.

What I don't like at all about the trans vs radfems is the level of violence and disruption, which is more intense than the stuff generally seen over debates/meetings - the kind of tactics usually engaged in by people who want to eg stop fracking or disrupt foxhunting, or anti-road protesters (where there is some justification for the need to physically stop destruction/damage/harm taking place).

I'm still waiting for the list of traits more commonly found in women.

I don't think it's unreasonable for an individual woman to want a female HCP for stuff like smear tests. But, to be fair, plenty of women are not too bothered about either the sex or the gender of the HCP they see as long as that HCP is competent, professional and kind. (And there are plenty of women who have been treated badly by female HCPs - nurses/doctors etc who were lazy, spiteful, incompetent or patronizing.)

I have yet to hear of any men being ordered to accept a female-appearing non-binary or transmasculine HCP for stuff like prostate checks or testicle examinations, when they have requested a male HCP for such a procedure (which is, of course, something they have every right to do). All the posters who mention the way that this debate is about women being expected to make room, comply, put themselves last have a definite point.

What is a TIM?

Yeah, if someone doesn't care what sex their HCP is then that's fine (I don't care either if they're setting my broken ankle or giving me a flu shot), the problem comes when someone asks for a woman, assuming she's going to get a biologically female person, and doesn't get one, as happened in the case that hit the news earlier in the year. Given that most people making that request will mean that they want a female HCP it's really not on to assume that they'll be fine with a trans woman. Especially one who's at the "still has a beard" point. There's some ideology over patient welfare stuff going on there.

A meeting where people are going to sit around and have a conversation is never an appropriate target for antifa style disruption tactics, imo. I also think that tends to hurt one's own cause in the long run - think of how most people view say ALF in comparison to other animal welfare organizations.

Transgender Identified Male

Basically the forcible transition from sex segregated spaces to gender segregation is social engineering of the most deleterious sort and the unintended consequences will be dire. For females. They are prepared to set the UKs social progress back 100 years through fear and intimidation.

free to leave? but not if you want to leave by going upstairs.

I see from Sisters Uncut's page that very few of them were actually going to turn up.

I'm absolutely staggered to read (further back in this thread) that Sisters Uncut is a feminist group. I genuinely thought, from what I saw on twitter, that they were TIMs and that the 'unctut' referred to 'don't intend to have surgery'. Is it really a women's group? 😯😯😯

I'm absolutely staggered to read (further back in this thread) that Sisters Uncut is a feminist group. I genuinely thought, from what I saw on twitter, that they were TIMs and that the 'unctut' referred to 'don't intend to have surgery'. Is it really a women's group?

Well, they are a group that includes (and centres) trans-identified males in their definition of women - and apparently they are planning to change their name to something that doesn't have the word 'sisters' in because that isn't inclusive enough. They were also originally against domestic violence but recently supported the male transactivist Tara Wood throughout their trial for assaulting a woman who was trying to attend a previous meeting.

Telling women that you have surrounded that they are free to leave is adding insult to injury.

I've been reading in newspaper articles about schools being instructed to educate young people in 'British Values', specifically:

Democracy
The rule of law
Individual liberty
Mutual respect
Tolerance of those of different faiths and beliefs

It's always framed as though it's people who've come from other countries and cultures who need 'educating' on these things. These privileged, white British young people are the ones who have no concept of these values or of how to behave in a democratic society.

"Tarquins"

Is there not a better way to say this - I do sort of get the point but ..... ( A minor point in the context of the thread I know )

tolerance of different beliefs is not much in evidence from those blocking the stairs.

When a group of people with their faces covered are physically blocking your route up some stairs, that is a deliberately intimidating and aggressive act - even if there is no violence.

Until very recently, everyone agreed what "woman" meant, now people are trying to change that without discussion. I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect this to be open for discussion.

Agreed, and such a fundamental discussion as ‘what is a woman’ and ‘what is a man’ in legal terms should be held as openly as possible since a change to self ID being legally how a man or woman is defined has serious real world effects for everyone.

There should be a genuine public debate and hours being spent discussing and working through the many impacts of the proposed change. Many of these impacts are feared as very negative for women.

Onus should be on those who want to change the current understanding having to make their points for such a fundamental change.

Instead, members of that group of opinion are using tactics taken straight out of fascism, while claiming to be the victims of anyone who questions, let alone those who disagree with their ideas and feelings. It’s very frightening. Why can’t they make their case through normal political channels? Why the threats and punching to the ground of women who ask questions or just want to meet and talk about it. (Someone was recently sentenced for doing this to a woman who disagreed with their views)

It’s very scary and seems that a political point of view has for some people somehow morphed into becoming an aggressive male dominated cult.

When a man (or in this case, men) is trying to physically intimate you, most women have been conditioned to appease and placate, and choose "flight" rather than "fight" because they could do literally anything to you and society wouldn't really give much of a shit. Slap on the wrist for the aggressive one with a warning if the victim uses the wrong pronouns. The police response was woefully inadequate.

I love magdalen berns. "I like your plimsolls by the way". Classic. She's still turning up to this stuff and fighting the good fight even though she's been so ill.

The derailer on the thread did a great job of derailing. She says she's a woman which just makes me sad. I know a couple of handmaidens sadly. Any woman who would rather divert attention to semantics than to condemn the TRAs for intimidating, bullying, threatening and harassing women. Not only that but actively centres the TRAs/MRAs as the victims. Anyone who does that is in no way a feminist.

"Telling women that you have surrounded that they are free to leave is adding insult to injury."

It's straight out of the Peaceful
Protesters Handbook.

I agree that words like "Tarquins" are unhelpful. I wish JB had not said "posh boy" - although I am amazed she was so restrained for so long.

^ I’ve probably written a disservice to cults by writing that. People can join religions and belief groups and feel and believe whatever they want, provided the cult doesn’t treat them illegally or ask them to do illegal things, and that we provide services and support for those who want to leave when they need to do that (if needed due to cult practices/belief).

Trans rights activism is particularly strange if you compare it to cults- because most cults just want to get on with their beliefs and wouldn’t claim that non believing people are out to destroy their lives if they don’t accept the cult’s views accepted as validated by the law of the land. Changing the law is a blunt instrument that affects everyone, whether they are a believer or not a believer.

Genuine question, why are posh boy and tarquin unacceptable?

Its better than being called a cunt, which is what the TRAs were shouting out.

TBH If I was in that situation that Julie Bindel was in, i’d be patting myself on the back for only calling that thug ‘a posh boy’. How she didnt swear or cry, I have no idea.

By Saying ‘stay away from me posh boy’, from what I saw on the video on Julie Bindels Facebook, looked to me like Julie defiantly seeking to stick a metaphorical two fingers up to the reality of the situation which was really wrong and frightening: a large, threateningly masked male person had successfully physically blocked her path and that other women trying to attend a legal meeting.

He and his mates did this blocking on a staircase (so it would be particularly dangerous if there was any resistance to them or an altercation) along with other fronting-up masked male and masked giggling female thugs who kept to the back of the group. This particular ‘posh boy’ even when Julie and the other women retreated off the staircase, and went down to the exit- so thugs got to feel powerful and like they had ‘won’- this particular adult male then followed Julie down to carry on having a go at her. So she said to him something very mild like ‘stay away from me posh boy’.

I’m not sure about being reassured by the ‘poshness’ (or not) of any bunch of big male bodied masked thugs intent on blocking and harassment- with the implicit threat of violence that goes with that. Posh and not posh violence and thuggery is the same old violence and thuggery if you’re on the wrong end of it.

Equally calling them ‘boys’ doesn’t mean Julie or anyone really thinks these are little children who know not what they do.
These are adult males who are more than happy to mask up to spending their evening physically intimidating women to try to stop them from peaceful discussion together.

One of them apparently lives in a very flash apartment on Bristol waterfront. So posh boy is entirely right. They are middle class university students playing at violent thuggery before taking up careers in corporate finance. They're basically the left wing version of the Bullingdon Club