AIBU to think mother of son’s classmate shouldn’t have grabbed him?

[MissOlivier]

My son has shown some spiteful behaviour towards his class. He has ADHD and ASD. His behaviour is definitely getting harder to manage in a mainstream setting.

and he only needs the assistant if he is having an outburst and they claim they have that support in place as his designated SEN will collect him when that happens...

This is utterly ass-backwards in terms of support. It should be PROactive not REactive.

MagicalMerlot home ed here too for both my children with ASD. Rubbish support, failure to educate, and rampant bullying made both mainstream and specialised school a poor option.

Victim blaming, please don't do that. The girl is doing nothing wrong, it isn't her fault that the boy is triggered by her voice, she should not be silenced, she is behaving normally. Very unfair to even suggest that.

I'm not victim blaming, this is why I questioned if some of the respondents on here understand the impact of noise on some people.

I have hyperacusis, I have come within inches of going over a balcony because I was in so much pain that I didn't know it was there and as a child I did lash out to stop the pain. As an adult, I can walk out of most places if I need to or wear earplugs/ear defenders. As a child, I didn't always have those options and was expected to learn how to endure the kind of pain that is beyond description.

If this girl doesn't understand that her volume is a problem, she ought to be educated. If she knows and cannot control it, she needs help and/or they need separating. If she knows and does it anyway, she needs guidance and consequences!

I have, at no point, suggested she ought to be silenced - learning to lower her volume would be a good idea (just look at some of the office threads on here about constant high volume).

But Andro, have you BEEN in a modern classroom? It’s mayhem most of the time. How anyone with noise sensitivity as part of their condition can be expected to be in there is beyond me. Drives my child to distraction, and he doesn’t even have any condition (well, not to my knowledge - I am exactly the same, can’t stand noise. Unfortunately the modern world doesn’t really suit folk like us).

fascinated - My dc's classrooms are not mayhem. I don't know whether that is because they attend private school, or because of the teachers they have but the classes are calm (and the students still engaged). How anyone can learn in mayhem astounds me.

I agree about the modern world; don't get me started on being able to hear every (curse) word of the racket the driver next to me is blasting out, or the need to ensure everyone within 25 meters can hear what you're listening to via headphones.

@MissOlivier huge hug.

If this girl doesn't understand that her volume is a problem,

That is assuming that her volume is actually a problem. It may be an entirely appropriate volume for the situation they are in!

But it's clearly loud enough to distress him, his tolerance level is clearly not at the level of an NT child. We don't know what his noise tolerance level is. My DD1 gets very distressed by hand dryers in the public toilets, which has made life tricky when we've been out and about. It's not the girl's fault, but we're talking about reasons why he's reacting the way he is.

That is assuming that her volume is actually a problem. It may be an entirely appropriate volume for the situation they are in!

Precisely. The girl isn't the problem, she's the victim.

But it's clearly loud enough to distress him

that still doesn't mean her volume is inappropriate. I was specifically addressing those people that were saying the girl should be muzzled and kept quiet to avoid her being assaulted by the boy.

Both these children are being failed, and blaming the girl is just not on.

Theres no excuse for physical violence. on either side. So if your son laid a finger on my daughter I would get the school involved. If it happened more than once then clearly the school arent helping (my daughter OR your son) and I would ring the police. The truth of what happened would come out between their 2 stories then. I certainly would not touch him myself. But nor would I allow it to happen to my daughter. And if it was my daughter doing it I would also expect you to call the police.

Andro

If this girl doesn't understand that her volume is a problem, she ought to be educated.

this is what I was getting at earlier, she shouldn't have to change

If she knows and cannot control it, she needs help and/or they need separating.

So she could have a SEND? and if neither are in the wrong who is getting punished by being moved?

If she knows and does it anyway, she needs guidance and consequences!

She is a child they get loud, noise in a classroom grows, it starts low and gets loud, it is then brought down to low levels again it is cyclic.

I know, it doesn't mean her volume was inappropriate at all, it just was enough to upset the OP's DS. Any more than a hand dryer in public toilets is, but it really upsets my DD1. You're right, both children are being failed in this situation.

The problem is that the OP's DS probably can't explain why he's upset, my DD1 often just says, 'I don't know' when we ask her why she reacts the way she does to noise.

Neither child is to blame, it's the school that's failing both of them.

Iv read to page 13. People need to come to sen board and take a look. Finding the right schooling and support for esp HFA is a nightmare. There just isn't the specialist placements avaliable and mainstream is woefully inadequate and underfunded.

If you make it through primary then secondary provison often falls apart. Everyone us being failed - our disabled and NT kids

So she could have a SEND?

I don't know this girl, so I'm trying not to make assumptions

and if neither are in the wrong who is getting punished by being moved?

I don't see being moved to a more appropriate setting as a punishment, it could easily be a relief (and yes, it has in the past been me who has been moved).

If this girl doesn't understand that her volume is a problem, she ought to be educated. If she knows and cannot control it, she needs help and/or they need separating. If she knows and does it anyway, she needs guidance and consequences!

We don't know that her volume level is inappropriate. For whatever reason, the OPs son has fixated on this girl as being the source of his distress, where she may not even be doing anything wrong. Some people have higher pitched voices than others. I had a student last year that had a voice that really was like fingernails on a blackboard. He couldn't help it, that was his voice. He was actually the trigger for another student who was going through assessment for additional needs. Neither student was in the wrong, they were just incompatible to work together.

2. It would most likely effect his learning and development, academically.

Have you considered home-educating? That's not a facetious suggestion. I know a lot of people who home-educate when their child's school can't/won't meet their child's needs and the SEN is too far away. He sounds like a child who would learn really well through home education and as it's an option that is growing in popularity suitable social outlets may be available through local homeschool groups.

Andro

but you have made several assumptions/scenarios based on no real information.

but you have made several assumptions/scenarios based on no real information.

I made 1 assumption (that the girl who appears to be the primary 'target' for want of a better description, understands the impact she is having) - I corrected that assumption in a later post.

I've given scenarios based on my own experiences of learning to manage acute pain caused by noise (I haven't assumed that OP's DS experiences noise as pain, it could be overload).

Having read the whole thread, working my way through the mire of horrible and ignorant comments about autism. It boils down to this.

The people so determined that the girl can’t help the level of her voice (which she can’t) are wilfully not understanding that the boy can’t help his distress when he is overwhelmed by loud noises.

The boy’s mum has given examples of her son begging people not to be so loud and he has been laughed and and the loudness has continued despite his distress. So, not the case of “getting up, walking over and and whacking her” which somehow become accepted as what happened (because people like to wave pitchforks)

Even if they are laughing at his distress (which is shitty behaviour no matter how you look on it) and he is begging for them to stop, nobody has picked up on the fact that this gives the staff more than adequate time to step in and defuse the situation before the boy lashes out. It’s still easier to blame an autistic, overwhelmed child. This seems to be default position.

It’s not a male/female issue, how utterly ridiculous.

Special school places are like hen’s teeth.

Schools are failing children, mostly due to lack of funding. So take it up with your MP, your local council, petition government. Nope, still easier to sit in judgement of a child, who is struggling to cope in an overwhelming environment with little or no support and was assaulted by an adult. Stop and think about what that says about you as a person.

Also, the post upthread saying that special school places being cut because of parents of children with SN asking for it is deflection. Do you know how wearing it is, continually being blamed, all the time, just because your child has SN? It’s relentless, it’s exhausting and it’s bullshit.

So basically, this thread has shown that despite recent efforts, despite the law stating it’s illegal to discriminate against someone for their disability and despite empathy and understanding being what should be happening, nothing has changed.

I read this while lurking on another MN thread and it fits here too.

“When all you have known is privilege, equality can feel a lot like oppression.”

So instead of getting angry with parents and children with SN, consider that your indignation and anger is a tiny insight into our day to day lives and how we’ve been feeling for years.

Stereotypes are unhelpful and damaging, dismissing the experience of autistic people is damaging, and most of all, aiming vitriol at a child is appalling.

No the woman shouldn't have laid a finger on your son. You should report that to the school and your LEA caseworker/SEND advisor in writing so that you are leaving a paper trail, I would also state that you will consider informing the police of the assault by an adult on a minor, you don't actually have to do it but it may help to make the LA and the school realise that this is a serious problem.

The school are in effect shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, what's the point of allowing a situation to reach the point where aggressive behavior is the end product and then calling for support, that is being reactive not proactive and should not be happening. What happens when the SEN support arrives?

When is your annual review due? If it is not due for a long while then you can ask for an interim review (or whatever they call it in your area) or you can ask for an early annual review citing the increase in incidents of poor behavioral choices amongst other things (bullying in corridors, assault by classmate's parent etc)

Just to be clear, everyone in the class is being failed, your son, the girl, the rest of the class and the teacher. It is the duty of the LA to produce and enforce an EHCP that accurately describes the needs of the child and the provision required to meet those needs and if that is not happening then you need to address that with your LA caseworker/SEND advisor (whatever they call themselves)
The ipsea website has some great information that may be useful to you.

One last question, has your son had an OT assessment?

@Smeddum wonderful post. This thread makes me feel sick to my stomach, so much intolerance to anyone who is slightly different and ignorance around ASD. Our NT kids have no chance of every understanding or accepting, if this is the level of awareness modeled by adults around them.

Being a SN mum is the most isolating and stressful thing I have ever had to do. My 4 kids are all well behaved, good mannered and nice kids. We are complimented on it all the time. But as my ASD child is getting older (he's 9) and losing that 'little kid cuteness' (people are just more tolerant of little kids refusing to conform) it is harder to deal with public situations where people expect him to behave like everyone else. I don't always know how he will react. We still do it, of course, we have three other kids to accommodate and he does have to adapt, but equally so do we. We adapt our behaviour in ways that will help him. And I have to say, the empathy shown to him by his siblings, is amazing. If they continue to be accepting like this, they will be wonderful human beings.

Beautifully put Smeddum.

I’ve read this whole thread wondering if there would be so much sympathy for the girl if she was a boy. There are a lot of posters on here insisting that the girl is completely innocent in all this - when we have no idea if she is or she isn’t. It sounds like the school is massively failing both pupils and the girl’s mother was undeniably in the wrong.

My son has ASD including noise sensitivity. He used to be in the same class as a boy with a voice so loud and so shrill that he even gave me a headache. The school managed to keep them as far apart as possible but even then my son could still hear him above everyone else. As a parent to a child with ASD I find some of the responses on this thread utterly disheartening (and I do also have an NT child).

Oops, knocked phone and posted before finished.

Anyway, just wanted to say, I wish people would show a little bit of empathy for those around them. If we were more considerate to everyone instead of charging on with our own agendas, blinkered to those around of, the world would be a nicer place and mocking those who don't fit in with our personal views of normal/cool.

Kindness isn't a weakness, it's actually the quality I value above all.