AIBU to think mother of son’s classmate shouldn’t have grabbed him?

[MissOlivier]

My son has shown some spiteful behaviour towards his class. He has ADHD and ASD. His behaviour is definitely getting harder to manage in a mainstream setting.

So Baked beans. In your opinion should ALL children be safe in school? Or just some of them?? You obviously have knowledge from both sides so you are in the best place to give your opinion, rather than slate every one else's opinion. BTW I have both SN and NT children too.

My opinion stands.... ALL children should be safe in school. Let's hear your opinion....

You are in no way in a position to make that determination.

No one on this thread is in any position to make a determination. However when you come on to an Internet forum that's what you're going to get.

Everyone is being failed in this scenario.

• the boy shouldn't be allowed to lay a finger on anyone
• the boy should be supported in some shape or form
• the girl should be protected
• the girl's mother shouldn't put a finger on the boy although she does need support to know that her daughter is not in harms way.

There won't be a consensus on this thread though. It's way too polarised.

OP, you said that although this girl is your son's "main target", he's been shoving other people a lot as well. Are the other people classmates, or has it been happening outside school (or both)?

Well yes, of course they should! What a bizarre question to ask. As if anyone is going to say it’s OK for any child to be hit in school

And the populace turns on itself

Divide and conquer

Meanwhile the architects of throw mess, policy makers, well they’re nowhere to be seen

Funny that

I'm very saddened by this thread, there is so much ignorance. SEN children have enough challenges without them being blamed for reacting in a way they can't help. The parents should challenge the school, not the children themselves. And I tend to agree with the PP who has pointed out that in high school other children in the class will provoke SEN children just to create a distraction in the classroom. I can well imagine that.

Of course it's not okay to grab him. However not that I'm condoning it but if it's been going on for a long time and Its upsetting her daughter. I can see how she lost her temper. Yes your DH has a condition and that has to be taken into account noone would disagree with that. All she'll see though as a mum is that someone is hurting her baby.

Sometimes compromise is impossible

Some children need silence

Other children need to talk becuae modern curricula requires this (I disagree with the general levels of disruption this causes for everyone, but I am not in charge of education policy)

Compromise will not meet anyone’s needs fully

I wonder about the quality of the education any of them are getting

And I tend to agree with the PP who has pointed out that in high school other children in the class will provoke SEN children just to create a distraction in the classroom. I can well imagine that.

Yep happens in primary too although more in the playground. We’ve had a few occasions where my son has tried to remove himself from situations where other kids have been goading him and they’ve followed him and then he’s lashed out.

He doesn’t lash out often and he does still get punished/told off. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that having ASD is a get out of jail free card but trying to understand why some children behave the way they do and it’s often for reasons which are no fault of their own might help.

Sadly with the attitudes displayed by some parents it’s hardly surprising the kids grow up without an understanding that some kids, through no fault of their own, just don’t find the world as easy to cope with as they do. Something I try and instil in my older boy whenever the inevitable “not faaaaiirrrr” starts

lizzie

Being able to well imagine something doesn't make it true though.

I attended primary school with many physically disabled children (on the basis that the whole school was on the ground level and in those days schools didn't have lifts.) these physical disabilities ranged from spina bifida to cerebral palsy (and a few more that I can't remember) . We didn't taunt or make fun of these kids. We accepted them for who they were and any differences they had. The ethos of the school (quite catholic) wouldnt have tolerated any form of making fun or goading these children.

I do genuinely feel sorry for all the children in the OP's story but I do feel in this instance that this girl cannot continue to be pushed, hit, shoved etc. So the OPs son needs help

I do get it, bonbonlavie I'm saying that we don't know what is happening in the classroom. I remember being at high school myself. I had anger issues, in my case because I was being abused. The other children knew how to wind me up so that I would lash out and be the one to get into trouble.

I'm not saying that's necessarily what's happening here, but I know what children are like. My DD2 knows how to get DD1 into trouble and play the victim, I've seen that. If a 6 year old can do that, a high school student definitely can.

It's never clear cut who is to blame. But ultimately it's the school's responsibility to keep the children safe.

Sorry, but in this instance I think it is clear-cut - the girl is the injured party. Even if she is deliberately winding him up (and nothing the OP has said indicates this) it doesn't justify violence - to say so has ugly connotations of "she asked for it". And frankly, I doubt there are no other loud children in the class.

This situation is not the OP's son's fault. He needs better support. But this cannot be allowed to continue.

When you say she grabbed him- was she trying to get his attention to tell him to stop?

Can people not read??

Who the hell is seeing posts on this thread that say anything justifies violence against this girl? Who is saying that? Where are you seeing posts that say violence against her is justified?

No one is saying violence is justified, no way. Of course it isn't. But the school needs to take this in hand to make sure all the children are safe. If that means the OP's DS needs to be in a special school ultimately then that's how it has to be. But they need to be proactive in looking for the right solution for all the children.

Zibbidoo, there was a post about how children can get others into trouble and then play the victim. I was pointing out that that's clearly not what's happening here.

I post this everywhere but I think it applies to all the people in this situation

"If you step on my foot, you need to get off my foot.

If you step on my foot without meaning to, you need to get off my foot.

If you step on my foot without realizing it, you need to get off my foot.

If everyone in your culture steps on feet, your culture is horrible, and you need to get off my foot.

If you have foot-stepping disease, and it makes you unaware you're stepping on feet, you need to get off my foot. If an event has rules designed to keep people from stepping on feet, you need to follow them. If you think that even with the rules, you won't be able to avoid stepping on people’s feet, absent yourself from the event until you work something out.

If you're a serial foot-stepper, and you feel you're entitled to step on people’s feet because you’re just that awesome and they’re not really people anyway, you're a bad person and you don’t get to use any of those excuses, limited as they are. And moreover, you need to get off my foot.

See, that's why I don't get the focus on classifying harassers and figuring out their motives. The victims are just as harassed either way."

-Hershele Ostropoler

OP how do you feel about your son being in a situation where he is so frequently triggered? It can't be nice for him. Are there smaller mainstream schools locally where he might get more support or non mainstream provision? I'm not saying he doesn't deserve mainstream, but as you said he's missing out on learning, being removed from class and being made to do basic work sheets. It might be in his best interests to look for somewhere he's be both supported and intellectually challenged. I do feel for the girl who has been assaulted, it's probably making her unhappy too, but her mother should never have approached him about this let alone laid hands on him. If she felt the school were inadequate she could've asked to meet with you.

The women should not of grabbed your son at all! Exspecially not enough to rip the blazer. I would be fucking fuming if someone done that to my child!

She is an adult and he is still a child, if she wanted to have a go at anyone then it should of been you.

I understand she would be upset but it’s still wrong and I’d be calling the police to do her for assault of a minor!

Fluffypineapple how insulting and demeaning. For a start, children with disabilities have siblings and we love them all equally!

Umm... would you like to direct me to my post where I have been insuiting and should be ashamed of myself? I look forward to it. Thank you!

And again and again it has been repeated that NO ONE should have to tolerate anything like what you’re suggesting! And your disgusting inference that such behaviour is only attributable to children with additional needs! You should be ashamed of yourself.

Posted too soon accidentally.

And again and again it has been repeated that NO ONE should have to tolerate anything like what you’re suggesting! And your disgusting inference that such behaviour is only attributable to children with additional needs! You should be ashamed of yourself

Are you smoking something illegal? Where have I suggested such behaviour is attributable to those with SN? Please point me to it.

My dd's bully did not have special needs. That doesn't make him any less culpible. My dd suffered at his hands. My ds has a statement of needs. He hasn't bullied anyone. If he had he would have been as culpible as a bully who doesn't have a statement. Which part of ALL children should be kept safe within an educational environment don't you understand??

Here, at 21:22

“It seems it's even more difficult for the parents of children with autism to understand that other parents will not tolerate their children being victimized and bullied in school - a place where ALL children should be safe”

The inference that a) parents are split into those with children with autism and those without, which is plainly stupid and wrong,

and then

b) that neurotypical children are bullied by autistic children (when statistically it’s the absolute opposite)

and c) that the parents of children with autism think that neurotypical children should tolerate mistreatment

and d) the parents of children with autism find such a concept difficult to understand.

Fluffypineapple you might not have meant to infer what you did but that’s how it reads. Yes of course all children should be safe. Your posts are insulting.

One of the reasons I left teaching was cuts to funding for SN support. My job was to teach the entire class. In a 2hr lesson with a class of 30 pupils I could give each pupil approx. 4 minutes attention. It was impossible to teach the entire class and also provide SN support for multiple pupils with a variety of needs. Yet that's what I was expected to do when the school decided they could no longer afford to pay additional support staff. Also in some cases where the SN pupil waa violent, it was impossible for me to safely intervene without the presence of a support person with physical strength.

OP's son is obviously not being adequately supported if he is able to continually assault another pupil. However I doubt if the school has the budget to offer adequate support; perhaps a factor in why the issue has not already been addressed? And I completely understand the teacher not intervening if a (possibly almost adult sized) boy is violent in the classroom. The girl's mother shouldn't have approached him but she must be at the end of her tether if her daughter is being repeatedly assaulted and the school is failing to handle the issue. It's sad for everyone involved. What is clear is that the victim of assault is not at fault, and OP's son is not having his needs met so either requires more support or a different educational setting.