To be absolutely terrified about these Brexit scenario predictions...

[freegazelle]

I think its so important people see this study based on the governments own analysis. Also reflects similar studies (one carried out by a free market US think tank I remember).

"After looking at all four options available to the prime minister, the study established that in the long-term, the amount of money available for spending on public services would fall. Under the so-called Norway option, there would be £262m less a week, under the Canada model it would be £877m, while under a no deal it would be £1.25bn.

This would mean 22% less funding available for the NHS if there was a bespoke deal, and 9%, 31% and 44% less under each of the other options."

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/18/each-brexit-scenario-will-leave-britain-worse-off-study-finds

Isn’t it the case that for most divorces, both parties are worse off financially, yet people still get divorced!.... because people recognise there are more important things than money in their personal lives. People believe the same about the life of their nation too.

People largely Brexit because they wanted their country to have control over its destiny (in so far as that’s possible) and not be forced by others to accept things they found unacceptable, large scale immigration being the main one.

Yes, you might very well argue that we need this immigration, that the adverse housing and services implications of this migration are a fault of the Government not the EUs migration policy, and Brexiteers made the wrong choice, but fundamentally they didn’t vote the way they did for economic reasons, so to keep pressing the economic case is like trying to get a divorcee to stop the decree nisi because it will have an adverse impact on their bank balance.

And also, as someone who voted Remain,

a) we’ve had the referendum - vote leave won.

b) we then had a general election. The parties advocating a second referendum did very badly.

c) the dire predictions of economic collapse following a ‘leave vote’ didn’t materialise.

stop whinging and ‘terrifying’ yourselves in your EU echo-chambers and get on with life as 95%+ of the rest of the country is and make the best of Brexit.

Yes I agree it's an emotional decision Coconutella and not one based on facts or reasoning - that is what is so frustrating about it - but I fail to see how being poorer is going to help anything! (Except being able to polish and admire our blue passports.)

Also we already have control in many of the policy areas you mention and choose not to exercise it.

People are only "getting on with Brexit" now because, as we are still fully paid up members of the EU up until March next year, we haven't yet felt the full impact of leaving. The full negative ramifications will take a decade to emerge. But by then the damage will have been done.

So, thank you, I am not going to accept it and stop working with others, using whatever small influence we have, towards a reverse decision, and if that's not possible, working towards the best deal possible.

Just a thought but does anyone else find it odd that the eu appears to be in charge of Republic of Ireland border policy and not Ireland itself?

It’s just I though remainers maintain eu member states don’t lose any sovereignty by being members...

I voted Labour because they were ambiguous about their stance before the election. I , like many others, were frustrated that this was then interpreted as a pro brexit vote. If you live in a safe Tory seat there aren't many options.

I agree we've kicked the wrong group of politicians. The more I look at them and what makes them tick, (ideas free May, lack of detail, it'll all be alright risk taker Boris, the laziness of Davis) my hope ebbs a bit further every day.

A more incompetent group of leaders than I ever thought possible. And yet people still vote for these idiots because the alternative is little better. Corbyn is a good campaigner but I'm not convinced of much else.

hey I think you'll find they are negotiating on both the EU and the ROIs behalf as they are continuing to be a member state and if I remember correctly and if you look at the negotiations the ROI govt is completely involved.

Just a thought but does anyone else find it odd that the eu appears to be in charge of Republic of Ireland border policy and not Ireland itself?

That's utter rubbish, Ireland have been leading the EU's position on this from day 1 and they have specific vetoes along the way.

Theworldisfull

Respectfully, you should do a bit more homework - Jeremy Corbyn - the leader of your ‘ambiguous’ Labour Party hates the eu - see decades of his voting history...

Laurie

I don’t think it is rubbish - the explicit goal of the eu is a single superstate...

I don’t think it is rubbish - the explicit goal of the eu is a single superstate

Oh, you're trotting out that bollocks.

Evidence?

Evidence? ‘Ever closer political union’ as outlined in eu treaty.

But patronise away...

It's not my Labour party.

And to echo you - thanks for the patronism.

The world,

I meant no disrespect, I’m just saying that - on balance of probability - deliberate ambiguity from a man who has spent decades critiquing the eu as ‘big business’ is unlikely to result in him actively trying to keep us in the eu

The irony is corbyn hates the eu but is leader of a party that wants to stay in, while may is the polar opposite!

I don’t think it is rubbish - the explicit goal of the eu is a single superstate...

A country that spent 800 years fighting for independence is not going to join a "superstate". So it is rubbish.

Ghost of

Good to see you again! All good in the hood at your local friendly momentum gathering...?

Theworldisfullofgs

But if there had been genuine support for a second referendum, and had people been half as terrified as the posters on here, the LDs would have many more seats today.... even taking into account that pro-remain voters may have voted Labour in areas where there was a straight Lab-Con fight or where LDs were nowhere.

Hey,

usual tiresome rhetoric innit?

• Use cliches e.g. 'superstate'
• Attack Corbyn
• Deflect any criticism of May.

Last years election wasn't fought solely on Brexit so its wrong to suggest staying in the EU has been rejected by majority of the electorate based solely on GE results.

Hey - I have to disagree with you.Theresa May is no lover of the EU.

Okdok

That’s my point - may is a remainer leading a party that wants to leave, corbyn is a leaver leading a party that wants to remain

coconutella
”People largely Brexit because they wanted their country to have control over its destiny (in so far as that’s possible) and not be forced by others to accept things they found unacceptable, large scale immigration being the main one”

We already have the power to take back control over free movement of eu citizens

I have no idea why this wasn’t used and published by the media..... oh wait......

Posted too soon

But we don’t use this power.... wonder why? Maybe because it’s good to have it economically!

Ghost of

To (presumably) assist you with your forthcoming sixth form essay and to help feed discussion with your swp colleagues

‘Ever closer political union’ is enshrined in eu treaty. Cameron tried to get it changed but was rebuffed. Note the word ‘political’.

I can only judge the eu on what it says itself

Meanwhile corbyn (blessed be his name) is certainly no remainer - see several decades of voting behaviour

Hey,

rather than deflecting and using cliches as insults why don't you address the utter mess the Tories are making of leaving including todays latest humiliation on the Irish border?

Of course you won't because you're job appears to be dismissing concerns ("project fear") and deflecting onto Labour.

This brexit cluster fuck was created by the Tories and is being implemented by the Tories. Enjoy.

And once again op YANBU to be scarce that all the brexit “positives” are emotive.

Who cares about money eh?

I think coconutella put it very well

“Isn’t it the case that for most divorces, both parties are worse off financially, yet people still get divorced!.... because people recognise there are more important things than money in their personal lives. People believe the same about the life of their nation too”

Economics/ gdp/ money/ who cares.... my nations life is important....

Sorry I won’t just move along and let them get on with it.

What are they getting on with? Not much!!!