The pornstar look

[PinkbicyclesinBerlin]

I know, I know we should not be judging each other but the pornstar look? Why would you do that to yourself, over inflated boobs, over inflated lips what is it about it that appeals to some women. I presume men are attracted to it because it screams sexually interesting but I cannot understand why women are drawn to it. AIBU

Agree Bluntness

Like the gleeful bitchy thread about ladies day but at least there most posters told the op to fuck off.

Shame not the same here.

Can anyone post a link to what the Boden/joules look actually looks like? I'm really curious. I knew of joules (though didn't realise they sold clothes) but I'd never heard of Boden pre-mumsnet!

I can no more back up my opinion than you can Mighty

If you wish to go on a forum that wants scientific back up for everything said then go there. Obviously MN is not for you!

Boden is kooky bright dresses with big patterns.

There is some very dismaying comments on here. Calling women thick, lacking self esteem, etc it's just awful.

As said before it's women on women.

Some women have over sexualised themselves since time begin, be it lip pencils and padded bras. They use the tools available. These women are not mentally deficient in any way as a stereotype.

It's not a look I'd go for, but I'd rather that than be the sort of woman who sits in judgement of other women and brings them down, due to what they perceive as an acceptable way to look.

And unless you are "thick"op you know exactly why some people chose that look, they like it, they find it attractive, they like attention from others. Stop playing the wide eyed inncocent who doesn't have a clue. At least be honest and not disingenuous.

I can no more back up my opinion than you can Mighty

Nope. There’s a difference. You are claiming you know a ‘fact’ that the women who are doing this are damaged. I’m saying we don’t know why and shouldn’t assume.

I’m making an objective assumption that in the absence of clear facts we shouldn’t make assumptions. You are claiming ‘facts’ exist which are just value judgement laden nonsense.

If I’d claimed they all wanted to be librarians or had a first in physics you might have had a point. But warning against assumptions in the absence of fact is not the same as making definitive statements.

Don’t worry those women you can’t understand op are probably out there working hard and enjoying their lives.

As you were

Some women have made a fortune trading on their looks and bodies. I happen to think more power to them. Some women managed to create wealth and stability for their families based on a sex tape (Kim Kardashian) - I don't hate her for that. More power to their proverbial elbows. Get in where you can.

"I think this is a question about when "choice" is choice and when it's a form of internalised media manipulation."

"Which is just another way of saying you think some women are too thick to make their own informed choices just because they’re not the same as yours."

No, it really isn't. There are two ways of looking at media manipulation (or at ideology). The first (and the most simplistic) is that it's something that clever people can spot, and stupid people don't notice. It's a view that is often associated with a very individualistic idea of personhood, against a social 'background'.

The second, and more sophisticated, way of looking at it is that that manipulation (or ideology) are inescapable for everybody - they are at work at the level of our most basic assumptions. We are all subjects of manipulation (or ideology) in this sense - no-one is smart enough to get outside of it. However, because manipulation/ideology are always contested and never wall-to-wall, there are a variety of positions that one can take. This is a view that sees the individual as born into a society that precedes them, and that structures their very way of understanding the world.

I think it is a genuine question: is it possible for women to obtain a position on their own image that is independent of the male gaze? If the answer is "no", then what kind of resistances are possible? I would argue that a "porn star" look still has a different relation to (male ) power than someone who deliberately seeks to use their image to unsettle and destabilize images of femininity (Lady Gaga might be an example of the latter).

Agree poutine

You OP, are engaging in a rather bizarre phenomenon of wanting to police and apparently empower women by denigrating their choices and rendering them too illiterate to be aware of the world around them. This is where feminism falls down. When other women think they need to tell other women how to behave or conduct themselves. It's disguised as support and empowerment but it's actually just another way of being a bitch and upholding misogyny

For good ness sake, of course saying it's media manipulation is saying they are too thick to know better.

And of course women can be free from independent of the Male gaze. Lesbian women, women who genuinely don't give a fuck, asexual women.

Why is it wrong for a woman to decide she wishes to attract Male attention, if she wants to, then it's 2018 and she damn well can. There is nothing wrong with wishing to look attractive by the definition you attach to attractive.

It might not be your definition but I'm fairly sure they would feel the same about uou as you do about them.

So what we are saying is that everything is the fault of men and the ‘patriachy’?

Women are obviously too stupid, easily manipulated or the eternal victims to do anything different.

However, if they listen to other women who tell them how to act, what to do, how to look and ultimately how to think they will be free? Hmmmm.......

How would you prefer these women to look op? What message would you like to send ?

Is dying your hair ok?
What about make up?
Long hair over 50?
What about body conscious clothing?
Stilleto heels?

What should women wear op in your head? How should we present ourselves to society?

I don’t see OP policing or telling other women how to live. She’s clearly not a fan of the look, but that’s ok we’re allowed our likes and dislikes.

The idea that feminism is about telling women how to behave is a very tabloid notion.

Consider for example models. Being tall and thin is either going to be in your genetic make-up or it won't be. I doubt Naomi Campbell or Claudia Schiffer could find a cure to cancer but they have made fortunes based on their looks which are/were largely based on their genetic make-up. Why should they not do this. It's their right to exploit any trait they can to get on in the world. If those girls from Towie or whatever want to inject their faces with all manner of things to make themselves more commercially saleable then it's their right to do so.

It's not your job to tell women what they should and shouldn't do with their bodies. If you don't find the look attractive then that's your opinion. You are entitled to your opinion. But what do you wish to change? To tell others that they are fine just as they are? I'm pretty sure that women are fine just as they are but if a woman feels that getting breast implants or straightening her teeth or wearing hair extensions will boost her confidence then so be it.

Stop bashing other women. Stop telling women what they can or should do or otherwise. Let them be.

Women are obviously too stupid, easily manipulated or the eternal victims to do anything different.

Yep. This is why I don’t identify as a feminist. Because I want to do what I want freely and without judgement. I don’t want to swap one group of bossy pricks for another.

The language around this is so similar to that which men use when telling women they must cover to be modest, or to excuse rape. It’s really unpleasant.

For good ness sake, of course saying it's media manipulation is saying they are too thick to know better.

And this is why AIBU is not the place for this type of discussion, Feminism chat would be better.

This is like the bottom div.

A great mantra for everyone tempted to judge what women do with their bodies is shut up, keep your beaky nose out and fuck off

From abortion to makeup to feeding babies to being in the porn industry or doing a PHD in politics? and every other choice. Mind your business.

And this is why AIBU is not the place for this type of discussion, Feminism chat would be better.

Yes, because apart from the excellent TERF work, feminism is just basically an echo chamber of the same opinions that you can be sure won’t be challenged.

Oh Tatiana

Thanks for gracing Us with your superior knowledge.

Off you pop back to the feminist chat then and meanwhile let women crack in with their choices.

This is why I don’t identify as a feminist

Oh right well then hand back your right to vote, to education, to equality, etc.

Not so keen? Well then you’re a feminist.

And this is why AIBU is not the place for this type of discussion, Feminism chat would be better

Why? Is it only the ‘right kind’ of women’s voices that should speak on these matters?

I don’t post there, but the discussion is a bit more sophisticated.