AIBU to not want to work that hard

[Greentomato82]

Not about SAHM / WOHM but about work generally, men and women alike, DC or no DC. Reading a lot of threads on here people often say they work mainly because they 'want' to work and that it's an important part of their identity etc. I know that some jobs are a real vocation, and obviously we all need money, but surely lots of jobs are a bit meh really and with a lottery win most of us would give it up or at least treat it as more of a hobby? I just seem to hear this more and more, lots about career building and ambition. Frankly I am not going to change the word any time soon and that suits me just fine. I want to rebel a bit and enjoy life. We generally work at least 9-5, 5 days a week for decades to pay the mortgage and bills because that's what we're supposed to do. Those at the top get richer and I can't help but feel like we're gradually being coaxed into a trap of believing our work is more important than it is to justify spending so much time there. I don't like that schools are focused on creating a 'productive' workforce of tomorrow, or that I'm viewed as a unit of productivity and the obsession with GDP. We're not ants surely? Am I the only grumpy one that wants to go off grid and hibernate from all the busy productive people. I'm not lazy but I just don't get it. AIBU?

It is quite a complex issue. Firstly, there is the fact that increasing automation will reduce the number of tasks that need a human to do them, so there will be a further decline in 'jobs', yet those in power keep banging on about how essential it is that (other) people WORK HARD.
Then there's the little matter of many essential jobs being very badly paid (think cleaning, care work, etc). And the whole culture of bullshit jobs. And the fact that people who refuse to take on jobs with shit pay and shit working conditions are demonized as lazy and thick when they are really demonstrating self-respect.

Like a PP said, what we actually need is UBI. (One way of paying for it would be to do away with the layers and layers of benefit 'investigators'...) Then it would be necessary to raise the wages for those jobs which are essential but not fun to do, in order to have these jobs filled.

I don't think the thread is judgemental at all. Plenty of people feel the work life balance if off in this country and feel that that their is, as a PP aptly put it, a "fetishization" of "hard work", which for the majority means grinding through long hour working weeks. We have the longest working hours in Europe. It's not a judgement to acknowledge this.

The OP is talking about personal attitudes and feelings to working that much. If you don't feel like it negatively impacts on your life, and you are happy and driven in what you do, then no one is judging you, it means what they are talking about (long hours for no gain, feeling like a commodity, feeling like one is wasting one's life to line someone else's pocket) simply doesn't apply to you.

I also loved being a waitress too. Really enjoyed it.

Particularly regarding education having a 'churn out a workforce' focus

I agree education is heading this way. The funding and focus on STEM subjects and 'skills', the gradual erosion of humanities subjects at every level, especially 2nd and 3rd level. It's becoming more and more about producing drones, rather than well-educated, rounded, critically-thinking individuals.

I find my life has improved dramatically for working from home one day a week.

I can get all my 'home stuff' done in my breaks, spend time in the place I love the best, and actively enjoy getting on with work instead of all the 'workplace' stuff that slows things down. The time saved from commuting goes towards hobbies I enjoy.

I find that the grind of life would be there whether I had my current job or not - I'd have to be doing something to earn the money for travel etc. I don't think it would be fantastically reduced otherwise.

What has helped is having the money to outsource cleaning etc. My free time is my own!

Completely agree something needs to happen about care work. Urgently. Mot only are these workers low paid, as far as I can tell they are shat on from a great height.

Anyway should probably go and get on with some lovely work ;)

Oh, though I should caveat the above that I only usually work a 40h week. I mean that I wouldn't drop from that to reduce salary.

I absolutely agree that presenteeism and long hours are fetishized, and have been very careful about my boundaries throughout my career.

I totally agree OP. I shake my head when I hear of people who work 50+ hours a week, barely see their loved ones but think it's okay that way because a career is so rewarding etc. Well, so is spending time with family and friends, doing hobbies, sleeping enough etc.! Capitalism has really done a number on us if we think spending most of our waking time working in mediocre jobs is so rewarding.

I thought I was the only one! At the moment I'm self employed working a couple of days a week but I'm mostly a SAHM and that's how I like it! I've never been overly invested in any of the jobs Ive done. Im just there to clock in, do the work, clock out and pick up my pay packet at the end of the month. If Ive felt unwell I take a sick day and have always kept overtime to a bare minimum unless it's benefitting me or helping a friend out. I think it's great if you're really involved in your work and you love it but for me there's always been more to life! I'm not one of those that buys into this idea that we need a 4 bed detached house with a double garage etc either. My two bed mid terraced house that doesn't leave me bankrupt at the end of the month is more than enough for me, DH and our two DDs. Each to their own obviously but it's just not for me!

OP I think what you are going to do sounds great. You and your husband have obviously thought about it long and hard and think you will be able to cope with less money. You say you will no longer own a car. Do you live in London where public transport links are good?
It wouldn't be possible to be without a car for many if they have children and need to constantly get around etc. Not having a fancy holiday doesn't have to mean no holiday. If you can go outside school holidays you can still find some bargains on foreign holidays. It's all about being able to cut your garment according to your cloth and be happy with a more frugal lifestyle. There are loads of ways to save money if you are prepared to be content with less material stuff. Just unfortunate that mortgages and high rents dictate the amount of hours many people have to work.

I'm a bit confused by the thread title. Do you mean you don't want to work in a high salaried demanding job?

I work in a minimum wage job and I work bloody hard as do many others. There are different kinds of stress involved in low paid jobs - anyone can do my job so if I don't do it well then I'm easily replaceable. The bonuses are not having to take work home with me and a good work/life balance. For shite pay.

I live in Korea and it’s absolutely mind boggling how much time people spend working. Even when my husband was young, a six day work and school week was the norm.

People generally get to work at 8 and finish at 8 or later and often go on compulsory work nights out til 1 or 2 in the morning. I mean a lot of people I know do that once or twice a week.

But at work, they’re mainly not even DOING anything. Just staring into space. It is the most unproductive country in the OECD.

The presenteeism is also shocking - I haven’t taken a sick day in three years even though I’ve been sick. It’s not worth it, you get yelled at and told you’re lazy and they call you 80 times a day. And they can fire you for it (zero labour laws).

Everyone hates the system and yet everyone participates in it. Crazy.

I don't see part time as incompatible with being very fulfilled at work - but of course it depends on your job and individual situation! FWIW my personal experience : I love my career, my work is very rewarding and a huge part of my identity (although doubtless this would be different if we'd been able to have DC). That said, I do 4 days a week due to health reasons. Sometimes I do have to work that 5th day, sometimes I'll take work home evenings / weekends (I'll get paid for additional days as I'm a contractor on a day rate), other times I'm in at 9 and out at 6 on the dot. I'm lucky to be able to do this 4 days a week, and being relatively senior I can set my terms for work I take on (it's 4 days a week and the price I charge or nothing). But I am very, very fortunate to be in that position, work wise, and I very much recognise that. I am v much an outlier in that regard.

Absolutely agree, OP.
I work twenty hours a week over two days in an independent shop. Luckily I've got a really decent boss who pays the (actual) living wage and who values us as employees. My boyfriend also works similar hours with a bit of freelance on top and we have a really nice, fulfilling life. We've both been saving up since we were teenagers which we used to put a deposit on a small house in a deprived area that constantly gets slagged off as one of the worst places in the city to live. However, it's a lovely house and I really like living in the area.
I've never had any desire for a career, and the idea of a job with any level of responsibility gives me the fear. I do often get asked if I'm a student or whether I have another job as well. It used to make me feel inadequate but I've long stopped giving a shit.

Works for me anyway.

Ter working on ever new complex problems, getting to know and collaborating with a whole bunch of people who are incredibly smart and enjoy complex problems as much as I do.

I do this too (along with reading journals in the bath ) but I do it on a part time basis. It feels like the best of both worlds to me. I know not everyone is the same.

I do see lots of complaints on MN about men having more of the high paid, high powered jobs - as if these are the goal we should all be aiming for.

Today 08:07 blackeyes72

“I agree with the sentiment, but it's a bit middle class.. I have a few friends who have suddenly taken up this philosophy as a way of life, backed up by.. Huge inheritances, family money, rich husbands etc.. Sadly most of us don't have a choice.”

this

I recall sitting in the staff room at work hearing one of the (degree educated, with grown up kids) LSAs holding forth about how much she enjoyed working a 3 day week, because ‘time is more important than money, and I like a good work life balance’. Don’t think she realised the irony of expecting her husband to work long hours earning big bucks to facilitate her work life balance!

I do this too (along with reading journals in the bath grin) but I do it on a part time basis.

I don't have kids, mind, and all my friends are also professionals with equally demanding jobs (i.e. not people available for afternoon fun). So to me it's either work or hobbies. Whereas hobbies I enjoy tend to be a lot like work, really. So I reckon why not get paid instead of paying for it?

Re the point made by yellowmeeple about us not having the workforce available to fill in if some of the very skilled people working 60 or more hours a week decided to reduce, yes that is true.

But equally, the fact that there are so few people with the experience to pick up that slack is partially because of the hours needed. There are people who'd stay in the game if they could just do 40 hours a week or whatever, but they can't, so they're out of the pool for the very top jobs requiring 60 hours, so there isn't anyone to pick up the slack if the 60 hour crew want to go PT. If we didn't require those hours to get to the top in the first place, we'd have more people getting there.

And there are employers in some fields who'd train more people, because they'd have to, if their full timers weren't all doing 60 hour weeks. I appreciate that there are some jobs and roles where this isn't fixable, but there's plenty where it is.

In answer to the OP, I don't think you're BU to prioritise other things and I think it's a shame that for large swathes of the population, due to region or income or both, this option effectively doesn't exist. I do actually really like working, myself. Just not full time. It is a somewhat middle class/privileged concern, in that there are many people with no choice but to work very hard and still have minimal quality of life. However there are also some of us who are achieving this lifestyle without any family wealth etc: just by deliberately designing cheaper lifestyles and purchasing in very inexpensive areas.

There is a good point to be made about the impact workaholics have on the rest of us too. On principle I try to take the attitude that it's no more or less valid an attitude to work than mine, but I have in the past worked in places where other people's indulgence of their workaholic tendencies, or sometimes just a preference for being at work over being at home had a detrimental impact on the rest of us.

PaulDacreRimsGeese
That's certainly true. In my role as a manager, I'm also extra careful to make sure that people who don't need to be in at 6pm actually get sent home (for a whole range of reasons, including employee motivation, work-life balance and also the cost of paying unnecessary overtime).

Having said that, the reverse is very much true as well. As stated upthread, I do love working and I certainly put in insane hours every once in a while. But at least some of these wouldn't be necessary if everyone were willing to lean in at critical moments.

I could just as fairly claim that my one employee who insists on going home at 5pm no matter what affects the ability of the other people on my team to work less. And they definitely know and, seeing as we're in a traditional work-hard-play-hard field, have complained in the past.

I don't actually mean to say that one is necessarily better - merely that this definitely goes both ways.

I wouldn't work if I didn't have to. But seeing as I have to I might as well aim for the top. My worst nightmare would be spending the rest of my life doing a 'meh' 9-5 job.

I'm with you OP. It's a bit of a no-no to have zero ambition but we can't all be doctors, lawyers. Not everyone has the brain for it and, if you are a child who is not academic, it's very easy to feel a failure at a very young age.

Schools should also push personal attributes such as kindness, being a good listener, having a sense of humour. These can also be a huge asset in any job and beyond because there is life beyond work after all.

Really? I see the opposite, ambition is a bit of a dirty word and needing to work anything more than the bare minimum to keep your job is madness

I'd hope your company is paying enough to justify staff staying beyond 5pm then TERF (love the name btw) if you're taking that view. If they are, fair enough. Not all work hard play hard companies and fields do, unfortunately.