To be really shocked at this behaviour in a 12 year old.

[Quiddichcup]

My daughter knows someone at school, maybe just 12, possibly 11.

We are aware she self harms and I contacted the school out of safeguarding concerns when dd came home from school and told me..dd was shocked and worried and had a few sleepless nights over it..

Dd is back from her dad's and has shown me a text this girl sent her about attempting to comitt suicide. Dd didn't reply and is really shaken up. I have emailed the safeguarding lead at the school.

11/ 12 is so young, I'm really struggling to get my head around it and it's not something I think dd should be exposed to, it's not something anyone should have to deal with, but 11/ 12 year olds?

You most definitely have got a completely undeserved kicking here, OP. Your posts were clear wrt drama - and that it was not the self harming that was 'drama' but general interpersonal relationships among 12 year old girls, which anyone who has/had a 12 year old girl or who has ever been a 12 year girl herself old should recognise.

Amazing how many people don't really read accurately.

"This thread has gone very badly"

I completely disagree.
I don't believe that OP has been given : hostility/unfairly/a kicking.

I believe this is a very important issue. OP DID do the right thing by reporting it, as everyone, without exception agreed. But, OP and others are now more informed and aware.

I disagree.

I had to go have a cry in the loos at work yesterday. That is not a sign of it being great.

It's a sensitive subject and about someone my dd knows and I was made out to be some sort of awful person when I had only been trying to help and seek support for myself as I found it shocking/ upsetting.

People need to remember these words don't get online without a person typing them.

Well I'm very sorry to hear that OP.
Crying in Work toilets is not what MN is all about.

I also agree with Feisty:
"Another poster seemed outraged that I suggested that parents need to inform themselves about the devastating level of mental health problems in our young people ..."

I have been on a few threads in the last few years, saddened at MH of young people, just generally :

of Year 6's in their last year of primary, year 7's starting secondary.
All through secondary.
And late teens.

And not just the extreme cases, but the general levels of depression, in a lot of these teens etc, sadness, loneliness, MH issues, just generally.

I can't find the link I want, but this is similar:

MHsurvey

Feb 2017:
survey commissioned by the Varkey Foundation questioning the attitudes and opinions of more than 20,000 15-21 year-olds from across the world ranked British teenagers and young adults in 19th place out of 20 participant countries.

Uk. 19th out of 20. Bottom. How worrying is that?

So yes, people do need to be more aware of this. Generally.

I’m sorry you were upset to the point of tears yesterday.
Main thing is, you did the right thing for this girl, and for your own daughter.
It’s good your dd was able to come to you with this, and you have dealt with it well.

Nothing is worth getting that upset over so you should just hide the thread. As I said, I think your dd and you did exactly the right thing reporting this so the girl could get help.

I do think you used some unfortunate language on here though given that kids with mental health problems are sometimes dismissed as being attention seeking or badly behaved. I believe you when you say that's not what you meant to imply but I think it's totally understandable people picked up on it.

I also think it's a shame you posted in AIBU where you were always going to get extreme reactions to something - when it's obviously a serious situation that has upset you. There are reasonably well used mental health boards on here which would have been more helpful.

Sadly this is the sort of age that these things kick off. At 11 my best friend was self harming although at the time (1985) I didn’t know that’s what it was. I too suffered from depression from around the age of 12 and I did attempt suicide at 15 but back then it was not really spoken about. Nowadays it is, and my daughter is 11 now and thinks she might be depressed. I have told the school, the GP and I want all the help I can get for her. I don’t want her to go through what I have. Now is a good age for them to get help in learning to deal with their feelings, mental illness, moods etc. Talk to your daughter about how suicidal feeling is actually a symptom of mental illness and that her friend can’t help it, but needs specialist help to cope with her issues. Be glad your daughter told you too.
My dd hid her feelings and it shocked me to find out that she’d been suffering it all on her own.
You done the right thing xx

It was the 2000s when I was going through similar, Tu, and there was no help. I was self harming from 12-17, people knew, school knew, friends knew, parents knew. One counselling session that for reasons I never found out didn't go any further, and that was it. It's woeful. I attempted suicide (very mildly if that makes sense, I just cut my arms a hundred plus times as opposed to the usual one big deep cut, I kinda lashed out wanting to bleed to death) and nobody cared.

I wonder if it's changed much now. I hope so. Mental health is much more spoken about and people seem aware.

Can I say, that there is no reason for any parent to worry about their child being a friend to a child who self harms. It isn't contagious. Children who self harm seldom encourage others to do the same.

My eldest dd (14) supports her friend who has autism, anxiety and depression. She has self harmed. My dd has not, because she isn't at a place in her life where she needs to.

I find it very hard to read that some on here wouldn't like their children befriending a child who self harms.

No one has said that.

Different, actually I disagree. There can be a strong social element to self harm and suicide. See instances of schools where one child ends their life and a spate follows.

I chose to self harm because I was in a desperate place. But it wouldn't have entered my head as an option if a friend of mine wasn't doing it and I found out about it. It made it an option in my mind and gave me ideas for how to go about it.

I absolutely wouldn't say that's any reason to not be friends with a child who self harms! A happy child won't do it even if all of their friends are, I don't think, unless they feel it's a way to fit in. But for kids in a bad place, being exposed to it in others can make it more likely they'll chose it as an option.

As the 12-17 year old self harmer, I would fully have understood and expected people to not want to associate with me, because it made me seem weird and an outcast. No doubt some did make that decision, many didn't thankfully. But it's important to recognise that anyone can choose to be or not be friends with anyone else for whatever reason they wish. Nobody is owed a person's friendship beyond civility and politeness.

I agree, LimonViola I was very unhappy as an adolescent but I never self-harmed though I did have suicidal thoughts regularly. If I'd had a friend who showed me how to self-harm it would definitely have led to me doing the same.

For this reason I would be very worried if one of my DDs was friends with a self-harmer. I wouldn't stop them, but I would be very concerned and want to talk things through with her regularly. My DDs are adopted and will have enough issues to cope with without becoming friends with other troubled adolescents.

The problem is that I'm assuming there that my DDs would tell me about it, which realistically very likely they wouldn't.

I actually kind of agree with @limonviola too.
I think any child supporting a friend who self harms (or any other mental health condition) need support themselves.
This is the reason I spoke to dds friends mum after dd told me she had confided in her friend about her self harm.
I wanted her friends mum to be aware, so that she could look out for her dd and be able to talk it through with her giving her support.
I think I would have been totally gutted (as would dd obviously) if the friends mum had stopped her dd seeing mine, luckily that’s not the case and I’m actually getting some support from the mum too which is lovely!

OP Thank you, for looking out for this girl, getting the help she needs, and putting your daughter first.

I was the friend here, like your DD, and wish I'd had the same relationship with my mother, and the same support.

You should be proud of the caring young woman she is growing into.

I absolutely am
We are very close and she tells me everything ( some of which I really don't want to know!)

We talked some more about it yesteday as she can't understand it and I said to her I don't either really. I don't think we have to but we did the right thing and hopefully the girl will get some help.

Thanks PP. I know it's not fashionable to talk about the impact mental health issues have on others around the person (as it can seem stigmatising) but it's a valid topic and it doesn't really help anyone to pretend it's not the case. I see lots of posts saying 'depression isn't contagious' which, while technically true in a disease sense, isn't so cut and dried in practice. People spending time around someone very depressed can definitely be affected and find their own mood worsens, especially if they have their own issues going on too. This isn't to say people with MH issues should be shunned, far from it, just that it's important to ensure those supporting the person are aware of this and are getting their own support/know they can back off if they need to.

When I went through it at that age (I've only self harmed twice as an adult since stopping at 17) luckily I didn't really speak about it with my best friends, it was obviously going on but our friendship was very normal and I didn't rely on them for support with the deep stuff. I just relied on myself and music. If I'd have been messaging them expecting a teenager to be able to support me with serious problems and risky behaviour and their parents found out I'd fully have understood them encouraging them to back off a little, even in the midst of it.

This is helpful for anyone wanting some understanding about self-harm.

www.mind.org.uk/media/5133002/mind_und_self-harm_singles_4-web.pdf

And this from young minds

youngminds.org.uk/media/1519/youngminds-self-harm.pdf

I disagree too, Differentname.

Social contagion is very much a part of the self harming problem, speaking in public health terms. It is something schools are very conscious of.

I agree with your posts here, LimonViola.

I agree mathanxiety, social contagion is a big area of concern.

It is not yet widely researched or fully understood. It is more complex than a simple cause and effect. There is research going on to identify which factors make some groups / individuals more susceptible than others. And alongside that there is work being done to try to support those vulnerable groups/ individuals with a view to preventing further self harm. But there is nowhere near enough knowledge about it and definitely not enough support.

Mental illness definitely impacts people around the individual. And there may well be times when friends etc. need to step away to safeguard their own mental health.

As a parent of a child with MH problems I've had to support her in both situations. Dealing with the desperate isolation that her mental illness has brought but also supporting her in distancing herself from a friend who has complex MH needs too. My dd had to put her own fragile MH first and that was extremely difficult. Not least because she has so few friends as a result of her difficulties.

I just didn't want people to think that self harmers must be avoided like the plague. It's a delicate balancing act and the more information that parents have the better equipped they will be to handle that balance.

No, avoidance isn't a positive response - I agree.

But sometimes children and even teens need to be assured by a parent or teacher that they don't have to feel responsible for someone else's equilibrium, that the matter is in the proper hands.

This is part of teaching children and teens to implement healthy boundaries around themselves. It's good for everyone when they learn to direct a friend or classmate to the teacher or the counsellor while still being a caring and receptive peer.

Absolutely agree

Math-that post is spot on. I told my dd's flatmates both face to face and in writing that they weren't responsible for my dd and while I was incredibly grateful for the support they were giving her, they must not give her more of thenselves than they could spare.

And anyone who thinks social contagion isn't a "thing" can't have spent much time with teenagers.