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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think "ran away with a black man" is racist

255 replies

Slarti · 14/04/2018 06:57

Seen a discussion on a local FB page, one of those "Who remembers parents/grandparents saying X when you were little" and everyone enjoys the nostalgia. Except this one was "Who remembers asking where you mum was and being told 'She's ran away with a black man'? And before anyone says, it isn't racist!"

My first thought was, are you sure?? Why mention racism in the first place if it's so benign? Isn't it a reference to interracial relationships being taboo/shameful/illicit? Anyway, the response on FB is unanimous - "My DM/DF/DGF/DGM used to say it all the time, so of course it isn't racist." My opinion that it might be hasn't gone down too well at all. AIBU?

OP posts:
TinaTop · 14/04/2018 15:27

*Black man - not racist
Ugly black man - racist *

I don't see how it's racist if he actually is ugly? Unless the implication is that he's ugly specifcally because he's black, in which case it would be racist. But if he's just generally ugly regardless of colour then it might be mean to point it out but it isn't racist. Or are you saying that nobody is allowed to think a black person is ugly and only white people can be considered to be ugly?

I've heard older relatives say "ran away with a black man" perhaps 30 years ago and don't see why it's racist to remember that having been said. If it was being said now it would be racist. But remembering it having been said in the past is no more racist than remembering slavery having happened in the past. Doing it now is racist. Remembering it happening years ago is not.

SaucyJane · 14/04/2018 15:33

And yet I've had a black colleague tell us all that she hated hearing herself described as "the black girl/woman" because she already felt like very much a minority in a big city firm populated by mostly straight white males and didn't appreciate having that difference pointed out further.

So since then, I've tried to make sure I'm not offending anyone, as you can't know how people feel if you don't know them. I go for descriptors like "the newly qualified in insolvency" or "the woman in the red skirt". I figure even I can't go wrong with clothes!!

BertrandRussell · 14/04/2018 15:57

It's always best to avoid physical characteristics when describing people if at all possible. It's just basic good manners anyway.

theSnuffster · 14/04/2018 16:02

My Dad used to say it. He probably heard it from his Dad who was definitely racist!

Original poster
Slarti · 14/04/2018 17:21

I've heard older relatives say "ran away with a black man" perhaps 30 years ago and don't see why it's racist to remember that having been said

Nobody has said it's racist to remember it, just that the phrase being remembered is racist. Wasn't that obvious?

OP posts:
Lacucuracha · 14/04/2018 18:06

I think you might if you lived in a majority black country.

You can't justify racism based on what a another country may or may not do.

I doubt it anyway, it's a curiously British thing I think.

LuluJakey1 · 14/04/2018 18:19

My family said it if I asked where my mam, aunts, grandmas were. We lived near the Tyne and I was used to my grandad and dad's stories about being in the navy (dad) and merchant navy (grandad) who used to tell me how he would go down to the Tyne and sign on a ship and go off to China or Australia or Canada. I just thought it meant a woman had gone off somewhere foreign with someone. As a teenager I remember saying I thought it was racist. I don't think they said it meaning to be racist. I think it is racist.

moofolk · 14/04/2018 18:37

Yes I remember it. Yes it's racist.

Agree with PPs from port towns that it probably meant ran away to sea (for a life of adventure), but that's doesn't mean it's not racist.

Undoubtedly most people meant no harm by it, it was a cheekily shocking thing that a white woman might leave her family (it was always someone's mum) to run away - with a black man. That, in case you haven't clocked it yet, is why it's racist.

Not 'she ran away with a sailor' (naughty), but 'she ran away with a black man' (scandalous).

mancmummy1414 · 14/04/2018 19:16

I always thought it was to do with the ‘black man big dick’ stereotype? Maybe that’s just my mind...
Either way yes it’s racist

ginghamstarfish · 14/04/2018 19:26

Used to hear this when I was a kid, if you asked where your auntie or whatever was, this might be the response. I don't think it's really racist, but in the 60s/70s this was the norm to say stuff like that.

Samcro · 14/04/2018 19:31

Never heard that
In our kneck of the woods it was the milkman

Mookie81 · 14/04/2018 19:51

Clara you don't speak for all black people; it is clearly racist. Anyone who still thinks there's nothing wrong with the phrase after reading this thread is a part of the insidious racism that is much worse than some idiot spouting the 'n' word.
It makes me laugh how many people are talking about their family members using the phrase 'but they're not racist tho'; erm face facts they might have many redeeming features but they have been at the very least extremely ignorant.

iamyourequal · 14/04/2018 20:01

Of course it is racist. As eloquently explained earlier by AnnaHindrer :

...Highlighting the fact its a black man in this particular case is to add to the description of how far the woman has fallen from grace, she not only has run off with another man...but with a BLACK MAN!

There was no need to mention at all that the man was black. That's not quite the same as saying..'the black guy in Finance' if his name is not known and he is the only black guy in Finance.

Littlechocola · 14/04/2018 20:28

Shocked at how many people think it’s ok.

TattyTShirt · 14/04/2018 23:00

I don't see how it's racist if he actually is ugly? Unless the implication is that he's ugly specifcally because he's black, in which case it would be racist. But if he's just generally ugly regardless of colour then it might be mean to point it out but it isn't racist. Or are you saying that nobody is allowed to think a black person is ugly and only white people can be considered to be ugly?

You can call him an ugly bastard if you like. That's not racist. If you call him an ugly black bastard that would be racist because you have defiled the colour of skin in a derogatory sentence.

Nobody is ugly/stupid/cocky/ignorant/selfish... etc based on the colour of their skin. Therefore there is no need to mention colour. By doing so you would be portraying that he is ugly because he's black.

The same goes for a black man calling a white man a derogatory name using the colour of his skin to victimise.

The same goes for anyone who uses someone's nationality in a derogatory manner.

E.g. You can call a bloke from Ireland a thick cunt. But once you introduce the word Irish into that sentence (Thick, Irish cunt) it becomes racist. There is no need to bring a person's country/culture into a derogatory sentence. By doing so you would be implying that he's thick because he's Irish -Therefore all Irish people must be thick. Get it?

Gwenhwyfar · 15/04/2018 11:50

"If you call him an ugly black bastard that would be racist because you have defiled the colour of skin in a derogatory sentence. "

But if you said someone was an 'ugly, short, bastard' you wouldn't be saying they were ugly because they were short, so why is the 'black' necessarily a portrayed as being a 'cause' of being ugly?

Gwenhwyfar · 15/04/2018 11:52

"I doubt it anyway, it's a curiously British thing I think."

You think that if a woman in an African country ran away with a white man his whiteness wouldn't be mentioned??
(This discussion is in response to someone who said what if this was a real situation rather than just using the expression).

Lacucuracha · 16/04/2018 09:25

Gwen which discussion?

The OP is about the jokey response to 'where is mum?'.

Who remembers asking where you mum was and being told 'She's ran away with a black man'? And before anyone says, it isn't racist!"

AnnaHindrer · 16/04/2018 09:43

But if you said someone was an 'ugly, short, bastard' you wouldn't be saying they were ugly because they were short, so why is the 'black' necessarily a portrayed as being a 'cause' of being ugly?

Of course you are saying they are ugly because they are short. You have equated ugly and being short together.

AnnaHindrer · 16/04/2018 09:45

You think that if a woman in an African country ran away with a white man his whiteness wouldn't be mentioned??

It would be mentioned, but the connotation behind it would different. Because people in Africa do not equate being white and falling from grace together. That's the difference.

KaliforniaDreamz · 16/04/2018 09:49

YANBU. And those responses along the lines of "the PC brigade" etc just get off facebook because those opinions are all over it like a cheap suit. Grim.

Lacucuracha · 16/04/2018 09:59

Good point, AnnaHindrer.

Everanewbie · 16/04/2018 16:04

Its racist. implies there is something wrong with mixed sex relationships.

But if the person who said it is a bit on the old side, cut them a tiny bit (not too much)slack. That sort of thing was said all the time in years gone by. It certainly doesn't make it right, though, some people just find it hard to adjust to our more enlightened ways.

I'm all for calling out 'PC gone mad' but if it was my mum i'd have a quiet word about how ignorant it makes her look.

Everanewbie · 16/04/2018 16:05

*mixed race!! Opening an entirely different can of worms with that typo

Pinkvoid · 16/04/2018 16:10

In my family it was ‘gone to see a man about a dog’. I never ever heard this phrase until I met my DP and he asked if my parents used to say it too as his DF always said it him. I don’t really understand the connotations behind it tbh, nor am I sure why race has to be mentioned.