to think "ran away with a black man" is racist

[Slarti]

Seen a discussion on a local FB page, one of those "Who remembers parents/grandparents saying X when you were little" and everyone enjoys the nostalgia. Except this one was "Who remembers asking where you mum was and being told 'She's ran away with a black man'? And before anyone says, it isn't racist!"

My first thought was, are you sure?? Why mention racism in the first place if it's so benign? Isn't it a reference to interracial relationships being taboo/shameful/illicit? Anyway, the response on FB is unanimous - "My DM/DF/DGF/DGM used to say it all the time, so of course it isn't racist." My opinion that it might be hasn't gone down too well at all. AIBU?

My dad used to use ran away with the milk man. We lived on a dairy farm. We had no milk man. However, he's in his late sixties and seems to think race divides, religious divides, any other kind of divides and the people who perpetuate these ideas are things to take the piss out of. He would tend to make them think he agrees with their views, then tell them that they're wrong, and why. Probably not a very nice thing to do, but it amuses him.

I also believe that many white men feel inferior to black male masculinity so objecting them to just a sexual being makes them feel less inferior as the women has the problem not him (she is a numphomanic)

I have never heard the saying he ran off with a black woman

I don't think it is racist.

Perhaps DM/DF/DGM etc would've been pleased if said woman had run off with a WHITE man?

"I would describe this as ignorance however, not racism."

Well, it's ignorance until it's pointed out to you. If you still do it, it's racism.

Repeal - My dad used to use ran away with the milk man.

Really? How many?

Am just gonna leave this here, a link to the petition to allow the Windrush generation citizenship which has recently been revoked if I understand correctly.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/216539

I think I heard this in my childhood and took it to mean eloped.

@BertrandRussell not necessarily. Some people are just raised in a way that things like this just flow out of their mouths like verbal diarrhoea. I still wouldn't refer to it as racism. I have black friends who use similar phrases too. They're not demeaning anyone as such, they're just pointing out their race unnecessarily (out of utter stupidity may I add!). I wouldn't necessarily label everyone who uses such terms as racists however even if they do do it more than once.

I think this debate goes to show however how fine a line there is between racism and ignorance.

I don't see it as racist, if the person was genuinely black. I'm sure people would say 'white', 'chinese' etc too when describing someone who isn't the same colour as them.

Even though I saw it as meaning elope, I still thought it was racist as the inference was (in my understanding) that marrying a black man was a bad choice. How can anybody not think it was stupid comment. I didn't hear it much though as there were hardly any black people in Ireland in the 70s but still, heard it often enough to think that the person saying it wasn't very nice

It is not and never was racist. The climate today is that any statement that inlude reference to a BME person is racist - some maybe but most are not

“Some people are just raised in a way that things like this just flow out of their mouths like verbal diarrhoea.“

Why does this mean it’s not racist?

And what sort of things do your black friends say that are comparable?

Signed Betty, you sneaky rascal you. 😁

I must admit, I only read half the thread because I started feeling very uncomfortable with reading some of the horrible expressions. There is almost an air of competitiveness, regarding the most racist insults that people have heard. I’m from a rural community in NI and have heard so many sickening racist and bigoted expressions throughout my life, it would shock some posters, but I don’t think it’s right to repeat them in order to show how racist OTHER people are.

“The climate today is that any statement that inlude reference to a BME person is racist”

Only if they are racist statements!

@BertrandRussell in regards to the comments I mentioned that I was referring to, I believe this to be ignorance, not racism. In my opinion, saying 'that massive black bouncer last night' or 'I was talking to this black guy earlier' isn't racism. It's ignorant, and stupid, but not racist. I wouldn't be offended by it.

They were just examples that I was using and I would use the same examples for all of my friends who use terms like this, regardless of their race.

I have black friends who use similar phrases.

Similar phrase such as?

@BlancheM I've already provided examples of the sort of comments I mean. I think anyone sensible can work out exactly what sort of phrases I am referring to. I'm not going to sit here and provide a list. It's common, I hear it regularly and I have learnt not to let it bother me because it has become clear to me that these comments stem from ignorance, not racism. This is my experience as a black woman and if everything like this was labelled as racism, and everyone who has ever said something like this labelled as racist, I think most people would have been racist at some point in their lives.

In regards to saying 'she ran off with a black man' - this is partly a generational thing and yes, it is racist as it appears to have negative connotations towards black males.

I don't see it as racist, if the person was genuinely black

Which person? It's not an actual account of something happening.

Even if you didn't know the history of it, which of course not everyone will, the fact that you need to point out that the man was black should be the answer.

It would be like describing someone at work as "the black lad" instead of using his name or role. Just wrong on every level.

Once you find out what it means, then it's inexcusable to use it again. I must admit that when I was a teenager, I had never heard the word pikey. When I went to university, a new flatmate in halls used it as an adjective. I asked what it meant; she said, "oh just shit or cheap". So I used it like that for quite a while before I found out what it really meant - I was bloody mortified. I never did find out if my former flatmate had really known!

@ClaraLaMoine agreed! As a black woman I don't find comments like this offensive. They're just stupid. I used to try and educate people not to use such comments however it's so ingrained in some people to use their race as a descriptive word that I don't bother anymore. They don't do it because they are racist, they do it because they're ignorant. It doesn't mean that they have any sort of prejudices towards those who are not of their own race.

I would describe the original comment as racist but wouldn't enter in to an argument about it over Facebook.

I was genuinely wondering what racist phrases your black friends come out with, Clara but I'm not up for playing guessing games :/
Never mind.

@SaucyJane I agree with you if they chose to describe someone as 'the black lad' instead of their name intentionally. If they were the only black person in the office however and described them as 'the black lad' as they genuinely couldn't remember their name I don't think this is racist. As long as they made an effort to then find out their name and not continue to call them 'the black lad' which would be quite bizarre...

@BlancheM oh for goodness sake she's given you two examples hasn't she? She said 'those types of phrases' surely you are competent to work out that she means phrases which people use to describe people using their race as part of the descriptor?

I wouldn't describe these as racist phrases to be honest. But each to their own.