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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think "ran away with a black man" is racist

255 replies

Slarti · 14/04/2018 06:57

Seen a discussion on a local FB page, one of those "Who remembers parents/grandparents saying X when you were little" and everyone enjoys the nostalgia. Except this one was "Who remembers asking where you mum was and being told 'She's ran away with a black man'? And before anyone says, it isn't racist!"

My first thought was, are you sure?? Why mention racism in the first place if it's so benign? Isn't it a reference to interracial relationships being taboo/shameful/illicit? Anyway, the response on FB is unanimous - "My DM/DF/DGF/DGM used to say it all the time, so of course it isn't racist." My opinion that it might be hasn't gone down too well at all. AIBU?

OP posts:
lalalalee · 14/04/2018 11:59

Of course it's racist. Hmm It's an expression which was commonly used in a period of time when racism was used in sitcoms and comedy shows on the TV.

Those people who are pretending think that it isn't racist - try saying it at work and see how long you have to wait for your P45.

NewYearNewMe18 · 14/04/2018 12:04

The black lad
or
the pretty one
or
the fat girl
or
the old woman
or
the bald bloke

they are all descriptors

BlancheM · 14/04/2018 12:05

Oh right Tino, I thought she meant actual phrases! As she said similar phrases.

JustDanceAddict · 14/04/2018 12:07

I’d say it was a remark of its time, but no-one should be using it today. Obviously black people were thought of very differently 50-60 years ago. Now no-one ‘normal’ bats an eyelid over mixed-race relationships.

BertrandRussell · 14/04/2018 12:10

“The black lad
or
the pretty one
or
the fat girl
or
the old woman
or
the bald bloke”

All best avoided, don’t you think? I am constantly amazed at how many mumsnetters have black friends who are completely cool about racism.........

BlancheM · 14/04/2018 12:13

Indeed, Bertrand.

TammyWhyNot · 14/04/2018 12:14

“Obviously black people were thought of very differently 50-60 years ago” by White People. Or even by some white people. I doubt black people thought markedly different about themselves in terms of people to run off with, for example.

My Mum and Dad are 86. Even my mum’s parents would never have said anything like this, recognising it as obviously racist.

OP: being able to use Facebook is no indicator of intelligence. Local groups bring out all sorts of ignorant fuckwits. You done need a sense check to confirm what you know.

Though it is illuminating to have t articulated so clearly as the PP poster who identifief the ‘othering’ effect.

ClaraLaMoine · 14/04/2018 12:19

@BertrandRussell I don't think us black folks are cool with racism. We just don't choose to get offended every time someone's race is mentioned in a non-offensive way otherwise we would spend our lives being offended. I couldn't care less if someone describes someone who is black as... black... it's just not racism.

If they call me the n word, or tell me I'm stupid BECAUSE I am black, or attach an offensive word to the phrase for example calling me the 'idiot black girl' then yes I will call it out as racism.

Why would you avoid saying 'the pretty one' or 'the black lad' - I just don't get it. Why can't you describe someone who is pretty as pretty, or black as black?

SaucyJane · 14/04/2018 12:20

Yep - it's not such a harmless descriptor to me if you're the only black person in an office full of white people.

SaucyJane · 14/04/2018 12:21

I had that pointed out to me by a black colleague in a training session on unconscious bias; she put it v eloquently.

BertrandRussell · 14/04/2018 12:23

Actually, the only one of those I might use is “the black lad”. All the others imply some sort of judgement. And I think it’s better to avoid using physical characteristics to describe people, unless it’s obviously silly to.

Original poster
Slarti · 14/04/2018 12:26

OP: being able to use Facebook is no indicator of intelligence

Oh definitely! It's disappointing though that there wasn't any dissent and that hundreds of people liked the post, defended the phrase and got all Daily Maily on me when I questioned it. This isn't one of those niche FB groups like "Knitters in Cobbleton" or "Ramblers of Chipplesworth" but a pretty big "We Are " with tens of thousands of members who, apparently, won't hear a word said against this racist phrase.

OP posts:
Speedy85 · 14/04/2018 12:28

“The black lad
or
the pretty one
or
the fat girl
or
the old woman
or
the bald bloke”

I think it depends on context to a certain extent. I remember seeing a comedian (it might have been Zoe Lyons) doing a bit about being terrified of mentioning someone's race. Somebody would ask her to point out someone at a party and she would say 'Oh, he's that man over there, the one, umm... the one with the Nigerian accent'.

But I think it all depends. In the context of the joke above I probably would say 'The man over there with darker skin' (if surrounded by a bunch of white guys) but if someone's race is brought up for no reason then it's weird. People wouldn't randomly mention that they have a blonde friend. And I wouldn't draw attention to the fact that someone is bald etc. But it's impossible to have a rule that covers all situations.

TattyTShirt · 14/04/2018 12:42

The word "black" is not a racist term unless there is a negative connotation attached. In exactly the same way as the word "white" is not a racist term unless there is a negative connotation attached.

E.g. 5 white men and one black man in a group. Someone says "I fancy him". "Which one?" "The cute black guy" - or should she totally ignore the obvious descriptive difference and beat about the Bush- "The guy there, with the black jeans and white shirt with a blue pattern".

Exactly the same if there was a group of 5 black men and one white man. The obvious descriptive difference is his colour.

Exactly the same as describing someone using hair colour, height or anything that makes them easily identifyable from the rest.

The sentence used in OP's post was a sententence indicative of it's time. Very much like the golliwog. Time moves on and people learn.

It's a flippant statement that people used up until the 1970's. It is not used now. Let it stay in the past.

However, back to the point...The word "black" is not and never will be a racist term unless there was a negative connotation attached.

Black man - not racist
Ugly black man - racist

TattyTShirt · 14/04/2018 12:43

Cross posted with Speedy 🙄

BertrandRussell · 14/04/2018 12:45

“However, back to the point...The word "black" is not and never will be a racist term unless there was a negative connotation attached.”

Yes. Not sure what your point is?

Keilninnock · 14/04/2018 12:46

Context is all surely. You may not get out much. Plenty of current shit to be offended about out there.

BertrandRussell · 14/04/2018 13:06

“Context is all surely.“

Sometimes..........

Fresta · 14/04/2018 14:44

Agree Tatty that black as a descriptive term is not racist.

As mentioned by someone earlier in the thread, people often do say things like 'I was talking to this black woman yesterday' when her colour was irrelevant to the point they were sharing. However, it's not that they are racist, it's just that her colour will have stood out to that person. because in the uk black people are a minority. I'm guessing if you were in a country where the majority of people are black, they would mention a white person's colour in the same way. It's an identifying feature, that's all.

DeltaG · 14/04/2018 15:04

I think 'black' when used purely as a description is not racist. I have used it myself when describing people in order to identify them.

When I lived in SE Asia, I was often described as 'white' in order to identify me - it's an obvious way of describing someone if their skin colour is in the minority. I wouldn't describe someone as 'black' in order to identify them in Nigeria as it would be pointless.

There is no need to see racism where there isn't any and doing so runs the real risk of trivialising and devaluing real racism.

BertrandRussell · 14/04/2018 15:06

"I think 'black' when used purely as a description is not racist.".

I don't think anyone is saying it is!

AnnaHindrer · 14/04/2018 15:07

Clara - First of all please don't speak on behalf of all black people, just yourself. Secondly, in the context of what the OP said I would consider that racist. Highlighting the fact its a black man in this particular case is to add to the description of how far the woman has fallen from grace, she not only has run off with another man...but with a BLACK MAN!

There was no need to mention at all that the man was black. That's not quite the same as saying..'the black guy in Finance' if his name is not known and he is the only black guy in Finance.

DeltaG · 14/04/2018 15:09

@BertrandRussell

I'm just offering my opinion; I'm not responding to anyone in particular.

BertrandRussell · 14/04/2018 15:11

Yes, while using black to identify someone is fine-using it when you would not apply a descriptor if the person was not black is. "Old" is similar. Sometimes ageist, sometimes not.

DumbleDee · 14/04/2018 15:14

My Dad said it all the time when I was little. That was 45 years ago. I don't believe my Dad was racist but it would make feel uncomfortable if I heard it used now.