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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think "ran away with a black man" is racist

255 replies

Slarti · 14/04/2018 06:57

Seen a discussion on a local FB page, one of those "Who remembers parents/grandparents saying X when you were little" and everyone enjoys the nostalgia. Except this one was "Who remembers asking where you mum was and being told 'She's ran away with a black man'? And before anyone says, it isn't racist!"

My first thought was, are you sure?? Why mention racism in the first place if it's so benign? Isn't it a reference to interracial relationships being taboo/shameful/illicit? Anyway, the response on FB is unanimous - "My DM/DF/DGF/DGM used to say it all the time, so of course it isn't racist." My opinion that it might be hasn't gone down too well at all. AIBU?

OP posts:

longestlurkerever · 14/04/2018 08:47

"Milkman" is also slightly othering in a probably class-biased way, but is at least as much to do with the nature of the job, which involves lots of calling on women home alone so is more forgiveable.

Brokenbiscuit · 14/04/2018 08:51

But as ever, people are more worried about being called racist than they are about actually being racist.

So true! And therein lies the problem.

OohMavis · 14/04/2018 08:51

Yes this was said in my house. It wasn't meant in a nice way.

Ironic that I met DH when I was 15 and literally 'ran away with a black man'... cheers for the idea, Dad

To be honest, it's not as bad as "be good or a black man will come and take you" which is what I overheard a woman telling her young child last summer. Fucking lovely.

lovemylover · 14/04/2018 08:53

I heard this a lot when i was a child, but they were different times, and no one had ever seen a black man where i lived, so to children it sounded a bit scary, and im sure there was more racism than there is now,and yes women were looked down upon if they got involved with a black man,
Times have changed and people know better now

FrancisCrawford · 14/04/2018 08:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KirstenRaymonde · 14/04/2018 08:56

Gosh I’ve never heard this, yes it’s definitely racist.

Anyone unsure of this (and everyone else) highly recommend you read the book ‘Why I’m No Longer Talking To White People About Race’ to gain a better understanding of racism in Britain and why saying like this really are bad, even if you don’t think they are.

Speedy85 · 14/04/2018 08:57

YANBU. It's definitely, definitely racist whether the people making the statement realise it or not.

I don't see how they cannot realise it's racist tbh though, but older people seem to think a lot of things aren't racist which are.

My dad once came out with the phrase 'had a touch of the tar brush about them' when referring to someone's baby. He didn't think it was racist. I was like 'WTF? If that's even a thing then it's not a thing we say anymore!'

Spiggle123 · 14/04/2018 09:01

There’s even a song about it: the Raggle Taggle Gipsy

I'm almost embarrassed to admit that was one of my favourite songs at school. As I remember though, she wasn't stolen, she fell in love and left her rich husband for a gypsy? Fingers crossed.

SaucyJane · 14/04/2018 09:01

My friend's 89 year old mother said this. She grew up in a very rural area and didn't meet any people of colour until she was really quite middle aged. She didn't mean it badly; it's because in her childhood it was said as something that would have been exotic and surprising for old Mrs Green next door to have done suddenly.

It's still othering and therefore racist IMO. I don't know anyone else who would think this phrase was ok in 2018. Even my friend's mum listened when my friend told her it was not ok!

idobelieveinfairies86 · 14/04/2018 09:03

maybe be way off here but I don't think it's racist if black people are completely fine with it? I haven't used that one but I have used the "ran away with the milk man/postman etc but men I know (black and white men) have used the ran away with a black man one.
Surely, by calling it racist it's being suggested that there is something wrong with the sentence? There is nothing wrong with running away with a black man is there??

Perhaps it's different opinions depending on the circles you travel in?? For instance in my area the circle I travel in it would be offensive to call someone "coloured" and i was mortified some years ago (as a teenager who didn't know what was the correct term) "do I look like a flipping rainbow"

Now a sentence I hear quite often that definitely IS racist and I cannot stand is "sweating like a p/n* on a rape charge"

I understand that the ran away fraze is implying that a woman will run away with a black man, but if that's racist then surely it's racist for black men to say "once u go black" as it implies that all white men have little willies?

Perhaps we should do away with theses ists and isms and just say that it could be offensive to some people?
Ie instead of "you are racist/sexist/etc" just have "you are offensive, please go away from me" because really I find imo those that are 1 'ist' tend to be lots of other 'ists' too
x

longestlurkerever · 14/04/2018 09:04

*But as ever, people are more worried about being called racist than they are about actually being racist.

So true! And therein lies the problem.*

This absolutely. I am actually quite worried about this attitude nowadays. At one stage if people called someone out on a racist turn of phrase they'd be likely to say "is it? Gosh, you're right, I won't say that again". Or even "I'm not sure it is, but if it might be perceived that way maybe it's better not used" and this has led to a lot of casual racism being exorcised from our language/culture.

But now there's so much anger directed at the person who calls racism - it's like pointing out racism is becoming taboo in itself. I don't get that attitude at all. Unconscious bias is a real thing with real life effects and unless it's acknowledged there's no hope of progress.

cantstopfuckingeating · 14/04/2018 09:05

Here it's a soldier! Of unknown ethnicity. But we are in North of Ireland and British soldiers weren't embraced well by the locals to say the least!

Spiggle123 · 14/04/2018 09:05

Oops sorry misread. 'Ran away with a gypsy' not 'Stolen by gypsies' This thread has confused me this morning.

Lilyhatesjaz · 14/04/2018 09:09

My gran used to say this sometimes she said it to mean ran off with an exotic stranger. I agree it is racist and I certainly wouldn't say it. But I don't think my gran meant to be racist she would be over 100 now and I think she probably met very few if any non white people.

Original poster

Slarti · 14/04/2018 09:09

older people seem to think a lot of things aren't racist which are.

The thing is this was a post by the younger generation reminiscing about things the older generation said. Apart from me not a single person thought it was racist or would even entertain the idea that it might be. Probably says a lot about the town I grew up in eh.

That said, it's been deleted now so either FB or the group admins considered it offensive. It's sad to see so many people unanimously get defensive about a racist saying though, then start up with the cliched "bet you sing ba ba rainbow sheep too" in an attempt to ridicule you. Loads of "you can't say anything these days" and "everyone plays the racist card", not from the older generation but from people of my generation and younger.

OP posts:

Cel982 · 14/04/2018 09:10

Of course it’s racist. The ‘joke’ relies on the fact that the idea of falling in love and running away with a black person is so incredibly scandalous.

Branleuse · 14/04/2018 09:10

My ex used to say "come on, play the white man" :/

HunterofStars · 14/04/2018 09:13

Yanbu. My gran used to say it but it left me feeling uncomfortable.

peacheachpearplum · 14/04/2018 09:13

I haven't heard it since the 1960s, my family didn't say it but they did say, "Play the white man." I haven't heard that since the 60s either.

Original poster

Slarti · 14/04/2018 09:15

My ex used to say "come on, play the white man"

Never heard that one until this thread, but I get the feeling the locals on FB would defend that as well.

OP posts:

BertrandRussell · 14/04/2018 09:15

Wraggle Taggle Gypsies-Oh is about a woman running away from "her new-wedded lord" and refusing whe he followed her and begged her to come back to her "goose feather bed with the sheets turned down so finely-oh". So I think it's OK to still like it.

augustusglupe · 14/04/2018 09:16

My mum used to say that. We used to laugh.
Of course now it wouldn’t be acceptable. However I also remember she had a Niger Brown skirt. These sayings were common place back in the 60/70s. They’re not used now are they, so there we go, no problem.
Our parents/grandparents were brought up in a very different time, it’s how it was back then.

Mammyloveswine · 14/04/2018 09:17

Omg my dad used to say this, i cringe when i think back! I grew up in a very very white area and generally dont think that my parents had much interaction with black people... they have honeymoon photos of them posing with black African men on the beach in Spain!

Now when i mention it they do get a bit embarrassed-it wouldn't even enter my head to reference the colour of a persons skin so i think it was just something that wss said 30 years ago which would rightly be unacceptable today.

SaucyJane · 14/04/2018 09:18

I always wondered what tune the raggle taggle gypsy was meant to be sung to, as a child - I had it in a poetry book!

Juiceylucy09 · 14/04/2018 09:19

I did not think it was racist. I wouldn't say it myself but as a child, I often got when I asked where's mam, Aw she ran off with the milk and the coal man and sometimes a black man, I saw it as she's gone for some piece.

There was definitely more racist jokes when I was young, I'm just 38. My DC would never be told any such jokes, We are all a very broad culture around here and all the DC play together lovely.

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