About the whole 'marriage thing'?

[plummanjelly]

I've name changed for this because it's gonna be super outing.

I'm 27 and partner is 30. We've been together 7 years, since very early 20's. Quite a laid back relationship for most of the time (given our young ages, tumultuous early careers, time out for further study etc.) but in the past year has got a bit more serious (on my insistence - his philosophy is just to let things happen in their own time). I've moved into his flat (rented), attended some family weddings etc.

All this time we've got on well, we connect, understand each other, he's a huge feminist (important to me) and generally have a great laugh. He's generous, kind and supportive, his family are lovely.

EXCEPT - its been 7 years, and since we're happy and definitely know we don't want to break up or see other people, I think it's time we got married. I don't know what else there is to wait for. I'm in a good place career wise, and while there may still be some change and uncertainty (heavy travel, extended foreign postings to very challenging locations), I think this is something we can tackle together. Likewise with his career, there's a lot of uncertainty coming up but I'm happy to support him financially (if required) and otherwise and am confident that he'll come out well on the other side. Marriage will change nothing in our relationship until kids, it's just something I'd like to get out of the way sooner rather than later. We both want to have kids only after marriage, and I'd ideally want to start a family in my early 30's.

He's absolutely adamant that he will not get married right now. He feels that he's still growing as a person and doesn't want to set anything in stone just yet. He also wants to sort out his career before 'settling down'. He seems to think marriage will change something in our relationship fundamentally, that he won't be able to take risks like starting a business etc. He's also concerned that I don't want to move back to his hometown (middle of nowhere) and that I may wish to take up foreign postings and he'd be compelled to accompany me (I'm happy to move alone for periods of time). He's a believer of things happening naturally and believes that one day he will magically wake up knowing that that time is right to take the plunge. He cannot say when that time may be. 2 years ago it was in two years, now its in another 2 years etc. etc. When I bring it up, he's understanding, but can't offer any solution other than why can't we just enjoy the now instead of stressing about the future.

I'm in a state of eternal frustration because of this. I could bite the bullet walk out of an otherwise good relationship and start again, but I just can't bring myself to. I could stay and most likely remain unmarried and childless well into my 30s, also a crap option. I'm not willing to try ultimatums or emotional blackmail (suggested by friends who have successfully used these tactics) because a) it won't work and b) even if it did I really would rather not drag someone kicking and screaming down the aisle.

WWYD

You have to dump him. I know how hard it was - I was your age when I had to dump my then boyfriend. He wanted marriage and children but had an erratic personality, couldn't hold down a job and got angry when drunk. I knew he wasn't father material and if I stayed with him I couldn't have children.

Tbh if your feelings about your future children are stronger than your feelings for him you HAVE to dump. I did. Thank god. Have a brilliant DH and two lovely girls. Barely give my ex a passing thought. My blood runs cold to think if I had taken the other path.

'And it's a viscous cycle of him saying that we can't possibly get engaged since I'm constantly unhappy and frustrated in the relationship (about not getting engaged mainly).'

Oh so it's your fault you are not engaged. How could he possibly be engaged under those circumstances?

He is so full of shit it is untrue. He is doing a form of gaslighting IMO.

Also, when this sort of situation arises (woman wants marriage, man would prefer to keep his options open) then it becomes unbearable pretty quickly, because the man holds the power to propose or not to propose. And all but the saintliest of men start to enjoy this power. They can nudge their desperate girlfriends any time they like, with mentions of proposals-to-come. They can punish any disagreement, disobedience, or reluctance to take it up the arse or whatever with 'I was going to propose but now you've ruined it'. And when they decide the gf is close to walking out, they can propose but stall the actual wedding for another couple of years. And then, once married, they can play the final card - 'well you wanted to get married, so don't complain about anything I do, ever, because I finally did put a ring on your finger'...

I've been in a similar situation except he said he didn't want to get married EVER. I broke up with him and now I'm married with a DD. Up to you whether to stay or not but I knew exactly what I wanted.

Plus, you have years to meet someone new and create the family you want. Don't stay out of fear.

It’s sounds awfully brutal OP, but sadly - “I don’t want to get married” most often means “I don’t want to get married to you.”

Honestly I would cut your losses and move on. You will meet someone who adores you and wants what you want.

There was a thread on here last week from a woman who stayed with someone like this. Only he also did the didn't want kids right now dance. She was 37. Time was no longer on her side. Cut your losses.

I read so many threads and hear so many stories about men like this and, honestly, I hate those men. I hate them so much. I hate them ALMOST as much as I hate men who smack women around. I know they're not as bad as that but they're still so cowardly and snivelling and selfish and happy to take a woman's best and childbearing years with promises and lies rather than just manning up, admitting, 'I do not love you enough' and set her free.

And I know, of course, that women are responsible for their own lives and should not allow this to happen, so I probably shouldn't hate those men as much as I do. But when they don't have a biological clock, or at least not as much of one, and they know that the woman does, it's so low down to carry on, coasting, taking it all as long as it suits him even as he knows her opportunities are fading every day in a way his are not. When, if he had a single testicle, he would act according to his obvious desires and tell her that he has no intention of giving her the life she wants and she should go find someone who has, while it's still an option.

When you have the advantage you should take the initiative to do the decent and brave thing.

I just hate these men. I hate them.

He's a believer of things happening naturally

This is code for a lazy idiot who takes no responsibility for his own life or driving his own destiny.

I think you've done the main growing as person bit by now. I think people change most between 18 and 25 (personally). I'd want the commitment of marriage too after 7 years and would be considering my options if my partner was showing such reluctance. My only advice is don't make any intimations if you're not going to follow through, they become meaningless if you don't stick to your guns so think carefully. Good luck

I do, too, Yorick. Really hope my daughter never gets landed with someone like this and wastes her time. If my son pulled this stunt on his GF I'd rip him a new head and advise her to dump his sorry ass.

I hate them too Yorick.

My ex had some loathsome friends who had girlfriends like the OP who they admitted to each other that they wanted to string along for a few years before dumping to start family with someone sexier. Do you know their tip for "buying" a few more years? Get her a dog .

Get angry OP and most importantly get the fuck out.

Oh and he doesn't love you. Because you don't treat someone you love like this. Denying them their dream of having children. Not just not having them with her, but preventing her being able to meet someone else to have them with. Its just cruel.

I will be teaching my girls to be extremely hard headed.

The mind games he's playing when he tells you you can't get engaged now because you're so unhappy (about being engaged) are really rather sophisticated and cruel. He doesn't sound like a nice person.

'Oh and he doesn't love you. Because you don't treat someone you love like this. Denying them their dream of having children. Not just not having them with her, but preventing her being able to meet someone else to have them with. Its just cruel.

I will be teaching my girls to be extremely hard headed.'

This! if you love that person, you set them loose because you want them to be have the chance to have what they need and want.

Just a tip for the future, plum. If you don't move in together until you have made plans together for the future, this kind of situation is probably a lot less likely to occur. I told my DH that I was not interested in living together unless we were serious about each other. He proposed a few months after I moved in. We met when I was 27, moved in together when I was 29, got married at 30 and I was pregnant at 31.

OP I find it a bit concerning that after seven years you're only just going to family weddings as a couple, there's taking things slow and people who doesn't want to adapt to share their life. DH and I have been friends since start of secondary school (13 years) we hooked up in the most innocent of ways a bit at 16, we both went off travelled, studied graduated and stayed the best of friends. We got together in 2009, I bought my own flat a few months later (I was already in process), he moved in after we'd been dating casually and then more seriously for two years, we'd both embarked on big career changes by this point. We didn't get engaged until 2016 (so the same as your seven years), but by that point as frustrated as I was, I knew he saw his life with me we were well into the process of saving a deposit for a house, we wouldn't have gone to functions 'stag' unless prior commitments or work etc got in the way and we'd talked honestly about things like having a family and he knew it was important to me to be married first and to have progressed at work. I got a serious promotion at Christmas and he proposed in Feb (delayed it as not to steal my celebration and because my mum told him our holiday would be a better location, thanks mum). We bought our house and moved late 2016 and got married this January nine and a half years after getting together. He was slow to propose but I was never in any doubt, I've had another promotion and my job takes me all over the country and sometimes abroad, and DH is a home bird, but he loves that I'm different like that, and if the opportunity was good for me to move abroad I know he would come too, because we've spoken about it. So it's not the time frame that worries me but his reticence and the lack of conversation about what 'I'm not ready to settle down' really means to him. If you can ask him what that means and he gives you a proper answer, then you might have a shot, if he just repeats himself, gets annoyed or refuses to discuss it again, I'm sorry but you might need to walk away if marriage and kids is important to you.

I think this was a good relationship for you to have in your twenties, but if you want to have marriage and children then you should start untangling from this ready to find a more grown-up relationship in your thirties.

I believe you will stay with him no matter what as you don't WANT anybody else but him, and you are going to hope he'll change his mind and prove us all wrong.

Stop doing his laundry, cooking or cleaning or paying for things and start saving up for your own place.

Go out with others and treat him more as a roommate or house sharer until you can spread your fledging wings as after 7 years you are going to be a bit anxious about starting over again and that is understandable, so this way, you are not limiting your options to meet new people as you gradually wean yourself being codependent on him.

I strongly dislike men like this too. They're such massive cowards. They do so frequently seem to go off and get married and have children, leaving their former partner unable to have kids.

Op I know it will be sad for you but you need to get this over and done with. It will only drag on for months or years. I sincerely believe that if you throw yourself into life, you'll look back even in 6 months and feel relieved and proud of yourself. Try and look at it that you're stealing your own future happiness by staying with this guy. It's only delaying you having lots of fun and being with Mr Right. Rip off the plaster, take a big jump into your future. Put yourself first.

Another thing to consider is that if you stay now and split up later, you will have less time to play with.

I didn't meet my DH till I was 31 and he was 39. We married when I was 32 and he was 40 and had our first child a year later.

We felt we didn't have time before starting a family and one thing I wish we'd had is time just us before having kids. Because now we almost never get time together alone.

If you want time in a relationship as a couple with the next guy then you need to leave this guy now.

To clarify. We felt we needed to get in with having kids due to our ages.
And it was just as well as we had some fertility issues resulting in a five year age GDP between our youngest and oldest which has also ended our plans for a third as we now definitely feel too old.

Argh! GDP = gap

It sounds like you want very different things. Time to cut your losses. Sorry, OP. Better to bite the bullet now than wait another 7 years with declining fertility etc, only to be told he's still not ready. I hate to say it but it may just be that he doesn't want to marry you. As sods law would have it, you'll probably split up and a few years down the line find out he's engaged to someone else - because he wasnt right for you. I hope that doesn't sound unduly harsh

'I strongly dislike men like this too. They're such massive cowards. They do so frequently seem to go off and get married and have children, leaving their former partner unable to have kids.'

Yeah, and they're usually the types who come over all smarmy, gushing about how they are family men and gushing like they're the first man to have procreated. 'It just wasn't right before. It feels so right.'

Vom.