About the whole 'marriage thing'?

[plummanjelly]

I've name changed for this because it's gonna be super outing.

I'm 27 and partner is 30. We've been together 7 years, since very early 20's. Quite a laid back relationship for most of the time (given our young ages, tumultuous early careers, time out for further study etc.) but in the past year has got a bit more serious (on my insistence - his philosophy is just to let things happen in their own time). I've moved into his flat (rented), attended some family weddings etc.

All this time we've got on well, we connect, understand each other, he's a huge feminist (important to me) and generally have a great laugh. He's generous, kind and supportive, his family are lovely.

EXCEPT - its been 7 years, and since we're happy and definitely know we don't want to break up or see other people, I think it's time we got married. I don't know what else there is to wait for. I'm in a good place career wise, and while there may still be some change and uncertainty (heavy travel, extended foreign postings to very challenging locations), I think this is something we can tackle together. Likewise with his career, there's a lot of uncertainty coming up but I'm happy to support him financially (if required) and otherwise and am confident that he'll come out well on the other side. Marriage will change nothing in our relationship until kids, it's just something I'd like to get out of the way sooner rather than later. We both want to have kids only after marriage, and I'd ideally want to start a family in my early 30's.

He's absolutely adamant that he will not get married right now. He feels that he's still growing as a person and doesn't want to set anything in stone just yet. He also wants to sort out his career before 'settling down'. He seems to think marriage will change something in our relationship fundamentally, that he won't be able to take risks like starting a business etc. He's also concerned that I don't want to move back to his hometown (middle of nowhere) and that I may wish to take up foreign postings and he'd be compelled to accompany me (I'm happy to move alone for periods of time). He's a believer of things happening naturally and believes that one day he will magically wake up knowing that that time is right to take the plunge. He cannot say when that time may be. 2 years ago it was in two years, now its in another 2 years etc. etc. When I bring it up, he's understanding, but can't offer any solution other than why can't we just enjoy the now instead of stressing about the future.

I'm in a state of eternal frustration because of this. I could bite the bullet walk out of an otherwise good relationship and start again, but I just can't bring myself to. I could stay and most likely remain unmarried and childless well into my 30s, also a crap option. I'm not willing to try ultimatums or emotional blackmail (suggested by friends who have successfully used these tactics) because a) it won't work and b) even if it did I really would rather not drag someone kicking and screaming down the aisle.

WWYD

I don't think he's a bad man for not wanting to marry you - I think there are quite a lot of men who really don't understand that women's fertility declines sooner than men's. I think you're 'comfortable enough' for him and he'd rather not be single and have to cook and clean for himself, and actually invest time and effort into finding a willing sexual partner.

Sums it up.

Ah,

ok, I hear you x

'I just want him, and to have him forever, and for him to want me back, and to make it forever officially. And a chance of having kids (with him) before its too late.'

And that is never going to happen with him. He doesn't want the same thing. That's the bottom line. Sad, but true. I was married for 8 years to a man who determined he never wanted kids. I wanted kids with him. But he didn't want kids with me, or anyone. We had to divorce because we weren't on the same page. I thought I'd never meet anyone like him, no one would be as good blah blah blah. I was wrong.

Don't sell yourself short for someone else. As if often said here, don't make someone a priority when you are only an option to them.

'And it's a viscous cycle of him saying that we can't possibly get engaged since I'm constantly unhappy and frustrated in the relationship (about not getting engaged mainly).'

You have to break the cycle. He won't. Or he will when it's too late for you to have kids. Seen it happen time and again.

You're not putting yourself first.

OP You are still very young. Maybe hard to believe but even if you spend the next 5 years without a boyfriend, you'd still have time to start again at 32 and have your children by 35-36.

If you were 30 now I'd say the same thing but in all honesty you ARE still pretty young.

I don't know if you read my previous posts. But I said my son is almost 32 and doesn't want to commit to anyone (is living with his GF) and wants to see how they get on before he gets married. He's also said no kids for a good few years. His GF knows this so at least he's been honest. They have a joint lease and share the bills.

If she gets fed up waiting, so be it but he has been 100% honest.

I think your man has been honest so the ball is now in your court over what to do.

It's a gamble whatever route you choose. He may decide he's ready to marry you, he may not. I am more inclined to think he won't, simply because you both met when you were young. Most men (with exceptions) spend their 20s having a wild time. He may well feel he has missed out. That could be one reason he won't commit. He's given you 7 years and is still unsure. Only you not being in his life will allow him to feel that loss and decide if he's ready or not.

My marriage might have gone tits up, but I can honestly say I loved him when I married him. Like? Perhaps he feels the lack of oomph in your relationship.

What is it that they say?
If you love something, let it go. If it comes back, it's yours. If it doesn't, it never was.
Is that how it goes?

I feel so sad for you OP, but I agree with the previous posters. He's telling you he'd rather break up than get married. You'd rather get married than break up. If you break up, and he realises what a fool he's been then you get back together. If not, then he was never right for you.

"Only you not being in his life will allow him to feel that loss and decide if he's ready or not."

they're right you know.

[I do also speak from experience here]

You've already invested 7 years of your life in this relationship. He'll happily let you invest several more with no further commitment.
He doesn't want to get married to you. It has run its course.
It's natural to be sad but don't get caught up in the sunk costs fallacy. End this relationship and free yourself up to find someone who shares the same values and view of commitment. (Oh, and when you do find that person, don't worry about bringing DCs up in an international posting. Lots of people do it everyday).

I have read your post Strawberry, it was helpful, thank you.

And thank you to all posters for your very kind and honest responses so far, it's really helped.

You need some space from him. He's not going to be the one to give you that because he's quite happy with your being there for domestic and sexual services.

I'm very sorry OP but I think you know the answer here. He doesn't want to marry you. Time for the big girl pants.

ah, good luck.

plum I didn't want to give the impression my son is doing the same as your boyfriend. The difference is, he's been dating his gf for some time. Due to location they only saw each other at weekends, so they decided to live together (midway for each of them) as the next step. They looked for a place to rent which was in itself stressful.
He is committed, but not ready yet to get married because he wants to see how it goes. But as long as they do get on, then I think they will stick together.

I think it's easy for you bf because you have simply moved in. My DH asked me to move in with him 35 years ago (which would have meant me relocating and giving up a job.) I said no, wasn't prepared to do that without some firm commitment because the 'gain' was all his.

Some women your age would be happy to wait till they were 30, then re-think. You aren't. Nothing wrong with that at all.

But one word of warning; if you do split up, don't jump into a marriage with the first willing man who comes along just to get married and have a baby! Be aware of the rebound factor.

'I just want him, and to have him forever, and for him to want me back, and to make it forever officially. And a chance of having kids (with him) before its too late.'

And that's just what I wanted from my exbf who I thought was my 'forever' , and who finally 'settled down' in his 50s ....but sadly he just didn't at the time .

and yes... he also tried to come back (twice in fact) , many years later, but by then I was happy with the man who is now my lovely DH ..

'But one word of warning; if you do split up, don't jump into a marriage with the first willing man who comes along just to get married and have a baby! Be aware of the rebound factor.'

I did just that. 16 years and 3 kids later, we're still happy as Larry. . I went with my gut, trusted myself and my instincts.

Ditch this guy and marry whoever you want, rebound or not, if you reel it's right.

He can only string you along if you let him.

It is also grave folly to compromise your career at this point, especially for a relationship that's well, still pretty casual.

He feels that he's still growing as a person and doesn't want to set anything in stone just yet.

One of the best things about a LTR (married or not) is that you grow as people together. You help one another be the best person you can be. That's surely the point, isn't it?

Oh Plum, I think you have had a hell of a day. And read a lot of things that were probably very hard to read. I can't imagine how sad you must be feeling now.

Take some time to think about what you really want to do, and be gentle with yourself. I do think you have been given much very good advice, almost unanimously, but this is your real life and you have some serious thinking and decisions ahead of you; I wish you luck.

It sounds like you are intelligent, ambitious, motivated, adventurous, and have a great career and future ahead of you.

Quite honestly he does not sound any of those things and in fact he sounds like he’d really hold you back. Don’t waste your years on him. Let yourself fly and you’ll meet someone with similar aspirations and possibilities in life

Best of luck

I could have written this post a few years ago.
After about 2 years of living together I did break up with him over it, and he did "propose" (while begging me not to leave) but that wasn't exactly how I wanted it to happen - with a gun to his head. But I realised I didn't want to be with anyone else and I didn't want to force him down the aisle, so I moved back and things just went back to how they were (wonderful and incredibly happy).
In the end we lived together for 4-5 years before one night getting drunk and deciding we should try for a baby (I was having a break from hormonal contraceptives). We ended up having said baby and are still very happy and planning our wedding at the moment. But I don't think he ever woke up one day ready for marriage.
My DP agonises over ordering a meal in a restaurant and then changes his mind 10 times. His parents also had a pretty horrendous divorce. So I think both of those factors were at play.
Looking back we both wish we'd got married before having a baby. On his side he said he just couldn't see why it was so important and why it couldn't just wait (presumably indefinitely) - he thought it was just an excuse for me to wear a big white dress. For my side I wish I had just (properly and calmly) explained why it was important to me.
I have no real advice. I would say that from what you say he sounds great this aside and it sounds like you have a good relationship.
Make sure you have explained to him exactly why it's important to you and try to understand exactly what his reservations are (It took me years and years to do this because I wanted him to wake up one day and propose without prompting). If he really doesn't care that it is important to you, then you might want to think about walking away.

He feels that he's still growing as a person and doesn't want to set anything in stone just yet.

One of the best things about a LTR (married or not) is that you grow as people together.

This with bells on. He isn’t sure eh wants to discover life with you. We were engaged at 23 and married at 25, so have done a lot of growing together in the 10 years since.

I think if he has said he'd pick breaking up over marriage, then there's your answer I'm afraid.

My DP doesn't want to get married, but the difference is I'm not really bothered either, I'm 39 weeks pregnant (planned by both of us) and we own a house together. There's no downside for me, I have more assets and am the higher earner (wouldn't recommend this plan of that's not the case).
He's more against the wedding than marriage I think, and we've both said we'll get round to it eventually for the tax/legal benefits.

However if I turned round to him and said it was really important to me and it was marriage or break up, he'd pick marriage without a second thought.

Find someone more on your page about love and life, you've still got time

Dear OP, you are really going through it. Your recent posts show the bare bones of it, too - you're still hoping, but his refusals are getting louder and louder.

It's not nice of him to use every which way to say he's not committing to you either - he ought to be straight. But somehow, no one says 'You're ok for now and it would be expensive and time consuming to try and find someone else to give me what I'm getting now for free'.

Refusing to get engaged because you're unhappy because of his lack of commitment is so wriggly it makes me cackle. It shouldn't make you laugh.

He is not the man for you. Hope won't change that. Time won't change that. Especially not your precious hope and valuable time.

You've got to dump him. He won't go on his own, believe me. But dumping is the only way to start the journey to fulfil your hopes.

He sounds a bit of an idiot, by the way, you are clearly lovely. Get on with it and give yourself a chance.

It doesn't take 7 years to decide whether or not you want to marry someone. He doesn't want to marry you and build a life together, not really, deep down.

I wish someone had told me that about my ex before I wasted so many years on him. 30 isn't all that young either, tbh I think people leave settling down too late here.