About the whole 'marriage thing'?

[plummanjelly]

I've name changed for this because it's gonna be super outing.

I'm 27 and partner is 30. We've been together 7 years, since very early 20's. Quite a laid back relationship for most of the time (given our young ages, tumultuous early careers, time out for further study etc.) but in the past year has got a bit more serious (on my insistence - his philosophy is just to let things happen in their own time). I've moved into his flat (rented), attended some family weddings etc.

All this time we've got on well, we connect, understand each other, he's a huge feminist (important to me) and generally have a great laugh. He's generous, kind and supportive, his family are lovely.

EXCEPT - its been 7 years, and since we're happy and definitely know we don't want to break up or see other people, I think it's time we got married. I don't know what else there is to wait for. I'm in a good place career wise, and while there may still be some change and uncertainty (heavy travel, extended foreign postings to very challenging locations), I think this is something we can tackle together. Likewise with his career, there's a lot of uncertainty coming up but I'm happy to support him financially (if required) and otherwise and am confident that he'll come out well on the other side. Marriage will change nothing in our relationship until kids, it's just something I'd like to get out of the way sooner rather than later. We both want to have kids only after marriage, and I'd ideally want to start a family in my early 30's.

He's absolutely adamant that he will not get married right now. He feels that he's still growing as a person and doesn't want to set anything in stone just yet. He also wants to sort out his career before 'settling down'. He seems to think marriage will change something in our relationship fundamentally, that he won't be able to take risks like starting a business etc. He's also concerned that I don't want to move back to his hometown (middle of nowhere) and that I may wish to take up foreign postings and he'd be compelled to accompany me (I'm happy to move alone for periods of time). He's a believer of things happening naturally and believes that one day he will magically wake up knowing that that time is right to take the plunge. He cannot say when that time may be. 2 years ago it was in two years, now its in another 2 years etc. etc. When I bring it up, he's understanding, but can't offer any solution other than why can't we just enjoy the now instead of stressing about the future.

I'm in a state of eternal frustration because of this. I could bite the bullet walk out of an otherwise good relationship and start again, but I just can't bring myself to. I could stay and most likely remain unmarried and childless well into my 30s, also a crap option. I'm not willing to try ultimatums or emotional blackmail (suggested by friends who have successfully used these tactics) because a) it won't work and b) even if it did I really would rather not drag someone kicking and screaming down the aisle.

WWYD

Are you me?
I'll tell you what I actually did; went through waves of getting closer and closer to breaking it off, getting sadder and sadder every time, until I got so sad that I did actually leave.

I lived on my own, got a new job, went out tonnes and really reconnected with my friends. Was a bit of a mess for a while!

Went on a lot (A LOOOOOOT) of internet dates... met a wonderful man who shared the same values and goals as me... this was more important when I was 30 than when I was 23... got married and am 34 now and about to have my first baby.

My ex is happy too, I think he's in a LTR and hasn't been single long since we spilt up, we're both so much better off.

WWID?

I would decide what my own boundaries were...for example 'I want to be married by X and have children by X'.

If he didn't want to do that I'd leave and find someone else.

@EverythingsDozy sums it up.

Leave, go away, have fun. If it's meant to be he'll come running if it's not, c'est la vie.

I was the younger woman that DH met and proposed to within a year of splitting up with his ex. She had had doubts and they had breaks for the last year of their relationship until she eventually called time. We have now been married 15 years, have four kids, have travelled and lived abroad (due to work opportunities) and generally have a lovely life. DH's ex is now with someone and happy but she never had children. We have chatted about it (she is a lovely lady, we have a lot in common and we are now social media friends), but I do feel for her as she told me she really wanted to have a family.

Equally, pre DH, I lived with a BF who was 8 years older than me. He proposed several times but it just didn't feel right, and everything was just a little 'tricky' (for want of a better word). I put it down to me being young, and stuck it out for two more years as I thought I loved him and he was the one I was supposed to be with.

Once I met DH, everything was just fun, it was easy to be in love with him, it did progress naturally and when he proposed I accepted very, very happily.

I see that you have made your decision. Good luck. It won't be easy but I think you know deep down that it is the right thing to do. X

I think you've done the main growing as person bit by now. I think people change most between 18 and 25 (personally).

I certainly hope that isn't true for most people. It wasn't for me or anyone I know. With a good lifetime partnership both people will be constantly growing and supporting one another to do so.

When I was your age I was at a party with my ex. A lady my age now rolled her eyes, leaned over and whispered "move to London and get a better boyfriend". She barely knew me so had no agenda. I took her advice. Hope we are her equivalents op..

Also, I don't think there's anything wrong with "setting a deadline" so to speak. If you're on the same page, it shouldn't really be an issue anyway.

Me and my partner discussed it a lot and agreed marriage was important. We moved in after a year of dating, and I said I'd want to be engaged within a year of moving in, otherwise he can move out (or I would propose to him). He proposed 9 months later. I don't really understand why someone would tolerate being strung along and waiting for years when you just be blunt and upfront and save yourself the trouble. There's a lady I know who's been with her partner 12 years, engaged 2 years ago but no date set because he's "not ready for marriage". He's 35. I try not to be judgemental but WHY is she still with him if marriage is so important to her and clearly he doesn't want it?

You’re his back up plan OP. The guy is more full of shit than a Glastonbury long drop. You deserve better and you know it.

If you told him you were going to move back out but you could still date .... would he miss you or the money towards bills, cleaning etc

rainbow why didn't your H set her free if he knew she wanted a family? Sorry, but I think that's just such a dick thing to do to someone. I couldn't respect a man who had done that to someone.

I think you are just conveniences to each other now, reminders of an earlier life stage. I'm afraid I don't think he will marry you. Next time my advice is not to move in with anyone without a proposal first - old fashioned but I think relationships at this time of life can't stagnate for ages.

why didn't your H set her free if he knew she wanted a family? Sorry, but I think that's just such a dick thing to do to someone.

I dunno. I'm sort of in this situation because I'm pretty sure I DON'T want kids but my fiance probably will at some point - he says he doesn't mind because he loves me anyway, but I can see in 10 years time he might think differently. So if you were me you would just end it now? I'm not going to, I love him and I've been very honest with him (I've said I don't want kids, I may change my mind but I may not) so it's up to him what he does with that info.

@expatinscotland, I think the intent determines if it was a dick move or not. DH isn't a dick. He is lovely and kind. He was young and didn't want to settle down. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but they both stuck it out because they felt it was the right thing to do. We married when he was 28.

Oh, I see, I thought they were in their 40s or something, rainbow.

Yeah, and they're usually the types who come over all smarmy, gushing about how they are family men and gushing like they're the first man to have procreated. 'It just wasn't right before. It feels so right.'

I heard a guy on some radio 4 program doing this. DH and I both pulled faces it was so OTT.

The female guest and presenter started asking few questions and it was one of these stories though with a child at end. He’d basically strung his DP similar age along for years and years as he wasn’t for reasons he couldn’t give ready to be a Dad – and she’s got to point it’s now or we won’t ever be parents. Nearing mid 40s and he expressed shock they had issues many cycles of IVF and miscarriages and it looking likely there’d be no child.

He claimed to be completely oblivious to declining fertility, for both of them, though he did say with hindsight he'd not put them through the whole thing.

Thing is, Name, your male fiance can procreate for a lot longer length of time than a female.

He is not going to marry you unless he knows it is very important to you.

Really what he is saying he wants to keep his options open.

He is not going to marry you unless he knows it is very important to you.

No, he knows it is important to her and he still won't. He doesn't have to marry anyone, of course, but if he weren't such a snivelling selfish craven coward he would own the obvious fact that he doesn't want to give the OP the life she wants, and set her free so she still has a chance at it. As it is, he will waste her time with lies and false promises until her chance has passed, and then act all bewildered because he was always HONEST and you can't FORCE these things, he believes in things happening NATURALLY, and any other manner of bullshit that serves an easy life for him.

God I hate him OP. Chuck him, please.

Apologies if I'm repeating other people, I have read only the plummanjelly's posts.

You're 27 and 30, been together 7 years so since you were 20 and 23.

"in the past year has got a bit more serious (on my insistence - his philosophy is just to let things happen in their own time). I've moved into his flat (rented), attended some family weddings etc. " So how was the first six years when you weren't living together? Steady, or on/off? You mentioned "tumultuous early careers, time out for further study" - did this involve time spent apart? Were you officially 'on a break' at any point? Why do you feel it got more serious on your insistence - where would it have gone had you not been insistent?

I think what I'm trying to work out is where HE sees this relationship. Is it central to his life? His plans for the future? Because to be brutal - he is not committed to you.

"He's absolutely adamant that he will not get married right now. He feels that he's still growing as a person and doesn't want to set anything in stone just yet."

Well, that kind if says it all to me plummanjelly. I think he's been perfectly happy to have you as a girlfriend, but after SEVEN YEARS no he doesn't want to marry you. His future is vague, but he's pretty sure you're not going to be a part of it . Sorry to be so brutal, but I honestly think this is the case.

"One concern of his is that we do break up over this, lose something good, and then very shortly afterwards he feels like all the other pieces of his life fall together and he'll want to settle down. "
Now THAT is just unmitigated cruelty on his part . Dangling a carrot (I might want to marry ... ) to keep you hanging around. For that alone I would walk.

Now, you may well be feeling the Sunk Costs Fallacy right now. 'I have put seven years into this relationship, I cannot give up on it'. It's called a fallacy for a reason. No matter what you invest, there will be no return. It's more a case of throwing good money after bad. So sorry.

*I don't want a wedding, don't want a ring, don't want a fancy surprise proposal, don't want a macho manly man, don't want him to financially support me.

I just want him, and to have him forever, and for him to want me back, and to make it forever officially. And a chance of having kids (with him) before its too late.*

OP, this broke my heart. You deserve someone who wants this with you too.

OP, if he knew his testicles were going to fall off in two years' time, or he was going to become confined to a wheelchair, or anything that would severely restrict his choices, I assure you he would no longer believe in letting things happen 'naturally'. He would seriously assess what he wanted, and how he could do it in the time available. He still might not want to marry or have kids, but he would at least THINK about it with the seriousness that comes from knowing you won't have forever to decide. And if he DID want it, you can guarantee he would be taking action to make it happen while he still could.

But then it would be for HIM.

I could understand the holiday or opportunity you’ve dreamed about- but him saying fundamentally that he can’t commit until he’s ready to settle down is sooo insulting. That’s all he thinks a potential wife is worth - settling down with. Not living with, not experiencing new things and growing and maturing. Bleugh.

He's just a man op. There are lots of others. Lots of people have 2 or 3 serious relationships before marriage this is your first if you met that young.

And why shouldn't you have a lovely macho man, a big proposal and someone who is passionately in love with you and actively wants to marry you? Oh and a fuck off big wedding and lots of babies? Id go for that. Leave mr drippy letting life happen naturally to him in his boring home town. Run for the hills.

OP, please don’t destroy your relationship because of some very angry people on a forum. Step back into reality for a minute. Just sit down and talk to him. Give him a timetable. Make it revolve around when you want children. Tell him you’re inflexible about when to have kids. Go from there. Marriage is secondary to having children in your needs. You can get married in the future to him or someone else if you really want to. You cannot put off having children.

Actually, my best advice to you for the moment would be: prioritize your career. Take the next trip abroad they offer you. Focus on how good you are at your job, and how exciting it is. At your age, your work/passion should be more important than a man anyway. You do still have plenty of time: don't spend it sobbing over this dick you have pretty much outgrown when you could be enjoying yourself.