About the whole 'marriage thing'?

[plummanjelly]

I've name changed for this because it's gonna be super outing.

I'm 27 and partner is 30. We've been together 7 years, since very early 20's. Quite a laid back relationship for most of the time (given our young ages, tumultuous early careers, time out for further study etc.) but in the past year has got a bit more serious (on my insistence - his philosophy is just to let things happen in their own time). I've moved into his flat (rented), attended some family weddings etc.

All this time we've got on well, we connect, understand each other, he's a huge feminist (important to me) and generally have a great laugh. He's generous, kind and supportive, his family are lovely.

EXCEPT - its been 7 years, and since we're happy and definitely know we don't want to break up or see other people, I think it's time we got married. I don't know what else there is to wait for. I'm in a good place career wise, and while there may still be some change and uncertainty (heavy travel, extended foreign postings to very challenging locations), I think this is something we can tackle together. Likewise with his career, there's a lot of uncertainty coming up but I'm happy to support him financially (if required) and otherwise and am confident that he'll come out well on the other side. Marriage will change nothing in our relationship until kids, it's just something I'd like to get out of the way sooner rather than later. We both want to have kids only after marriage, and I'd ideally want to start a family in my early 30's.

He's absolutely adamant that he will not get married right now. He feels that he's still growing as a person and doesn't want to set anything in stone just yet. He also wants to sort out his career before 'settling down'. He seems to think marriage will change something in our relationship fundamentally, that he won't be able to take risks like starting a business etc. He's also concerned that I don't want to move back to his hometown (middle of nowhere) and that I may wish to take up foreign postings and he'd be compelled to accompany me (I'm happy to move alone for periods of time). He's a believer of things happening naturally and believes that one day he will magically wake up knowing that that time is right to take the plunge. He cannot say when that time may be. 2 years ago it was in two years, now its in another 2 years etc. etc. When I bring it up, he's understanding, but can't offer any solution other than why can't we just enjoy the now instead of stressing about the future.

I'm in a state of eternal frustration because of this. I could bite the bullet walk out of an otherwise good relationship and start again, but I just can't bring myself to. I could stay and most likely remain unmarried and childless well into my 30s, also a crap option. I'm not willing to try ultimatums or emotional blackmail (suggested by friends who have successfully used these tactics) because a) it won't work and b) even if it did I really would rather not drag someone kicking and screaming down the aisle.

WWYD

You are not on the same page. Truth is he is in some way not sure about you / the relationship. These things happen- some men stay for years in a relationship they don’t quite want, constantly make excuses, then meet ‘the one’ and are married within months.

Lay down an ultimatum. Truth is you don’t know you’ll be single into your thirties; you could end up meeting the right person quicker. You won’t with this piece of dead wood around your neck!

Hang on, you are going to go on:

"(heavy travel, extended foreign postings to very challenging locations)"

If you are going to Venezuela/Afganistan (etc) you are not going to get pregnant or have a baby there are you? You can't bring up a baby/toddler in a challenging location unless you have access to some kind of foreign diplomats' enclave.

So the thing you need to get out of the way is the foreign postings surely?

I would take up the foreign postings now, fulfil that ambition, and see how much he misses you whilst you're away.

Name changed for this. It sounds like he doesn't want to get married because he doesn't want to incorporate your relationship into all his plans right now. Whereas you are already in that mindset. He may never make you a priority the way you have made him.

I got married mid 20s after being together for 7 years. He said he wanted kids, but as time went on he kept kicking it back. I tried to be patient because I loved him and I didn't want to drag him into fatherhood.

He eventually decided that married life with me was not for him and left (had an affair and everything). Which left me a bit broken, 30 and childless.

I regret staying for so long. I regret being patient. I regret trying to do the "right thing" and not badger him into kids. I'm usually so happy we didn't have a child together, because he would have been a disaster and I'd be forever tied to him.

But I look around at people in unhappy relationships who have children. Or those that pushed their husband into having a child. And sometimes I'm sad and envious. They have children, and I don't. I might never have one.

I'm not saying to push him into anything. I don't think I'd ever go back and wish I had pushed him into having a child. But I really really wish I had left him earlier. My one regret is wasting my time with him, because biology doesn't care and time marches on.

@fuzzy

A friend of mine did the same. He was in a relationship with someone for a really long time, but things just never progressed. They broke up and he then got together with and quickly proposed to one of my best friends. They now have two young dcs. They’re a lovely couple actually but I do feel bad for his ex gf.

A lot of people will happily have their cake and eat it without a second thought.
life is about compromise

What do you mean haven't finished growing? He's not a child how can you fall for that?

He either wants to be with you and marry you or he doesn't. Sorry but he clearly doesn't best thing you can do is walk away.

Yes, this is what you need to do.

1. take the post in Russia (or wherever it is) now while you are still young
2. throw yourself into it - have the experience of a lifetime

3 if you find you've forgotten about him because you're having an affair with Yuri in Russia or another expat, well that's that.

1. Ditto if he does the same whilst you're away.

5 But it might be that this lurch is what he needs to reflect on what he wants and whether what he wants is you.

Either way you can come back to the UK/a stable environment in time to have children in your early 30s with or without him.

@anonymous31 30 separated and childless is a lot different to 40 separated and childless.

It's a bit sad op but also very exciting and you have lots to look forward to!!

By drawing a line under your current dead end relationship you are opening yourself up to meeting someone in the future who will worship the ground you walk on, can't wait to make you his wife and can't wait to be the father to your dc!!!!

In the meanwhile, work on your self esteem and don't settle for second best ever again!

"You are taking all the romance and magic away in your demands. I would, if I were male, be really put off with this kind of unromantic needy/bossiness.

I am also very sad that you will miss out on the 'Mills and Boon' style crushingly romantic moment many women (including me) when the love of their life asks them to marry."

I'm afraid I couldn't disagree with this more.

Or rather, I agree with it, but I think that you lose more than you gain from taking this view.

Yes, if you have a grownup, sensible discusson about marriage and your future, it might 'ruin' this kind of traditional, dare I say rather old-fashioned, 'magical moment'. But what you gain in exchange is immeasurably more important. I have long believed that the traditional trappings of romance, with their assumption of female passivity and male decisiveness, actually stand in the way of a serious, equal, deep partnership. Fundamentally, I don't believe relationships of that kind are the most profound type that two people can have. They might be full of Barbara Cartland retro-styling, but they aren't really deeply satisfying and they require women to put up with far too much in exchange for the 'gift' of a proposal over which they have no control. The whole 'on a pedestal' thing is not, I'm afraid, the healthiest model. It's far better to have proper, deep discussions about where you both stand - because if there are serious differences in your attitudes towards life, then you need to know that straight up.

I am not sure, however, that your DP is 100% sure he doesn't want to marry you. I think real life is often mroe complicated than that. I could have written your post at 28 (I'm now more than a decade older). I was with a guy who didn't 'believe' in marriage, the time was never right, it wasn't for him etc. etc. etc. The truth of the matter was that behind this divide on a wedding, there was something much deeper - we had actually grown out of each other. We were a great match as teenagers, but actually we were a hopeless match when it came to adulthood. Basically, it amounted to a temporal divide between us: I wanted to be organised and fairly directed about the future, he wanted to sort of drift through life, being spontaneous. The trouble was, his spontaneity came at a cost to me. I ended up doing my job AND all of the housework AND caring for a parent with cancer, while he played games or watched movies. What was fun and wonderful in my teens became fundamentally unfair and unequal when the responsibilities of adult life came crowding in. Ditching him - while scary - was honestly one of the best decisions I've made. I'm now very happily and much more equally married to a lovely guy who shares the same kind of attitude to life as I have!

If you dump him he may run after you. (this is what happened to me after a 3 yr relationship that I thought was going nowhere when I was 29.)

If you stick around you risk being dumped later on.

Moving into his flat? So you didn't actually look and sign a lease together? You moved in with him? Are you sharing outgoing? Is it resembling a proper relationship? Do you contribute to the rent and bills? If not, the reality for him of really sharing his life is missing.

DH became broody after we were together 4 years and HE became broody and wanted to have children with me (his first but not mine) and i agreed to try. His view of marriage changed almost overnight. Before that he was iffy about marriage and it made me wary.

In your mind it's marriage then kids. In your DPs mind i think kids = marriage and he's not ready for kids and can't foresee a time when he will be.

You're nearly 30 and trust me the next 10 years will FLY BY like no other decade for you so far. Hurtling towards 40 is a bad time to be jumping ship to look for marriage and kids for the first time.

So i'd go pretty soon Give your 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s +++ to a man who wants the same things as you and will commit.

The opportunity to take up foreign postings or move back to some shitty hometown in the middle of nowhere with a guy who doesn't want to marry you after seven long years?

Say what?

I echo the thoughts of many. If Inwas in your shoes, I would get out now. Concentrate on your career. Meet other like minded people. Travel the world. Things will fall into place over the next decade.

Do not waste more time on a person who isn't that committed to you, wants different things, doesn't have the same focus on life. This guy is holding you back.

I think the phrase ' he's just not that into you' springs to mind. He can go with the flow for as long as he likes. You can't. It'll be painful, but you need to leave now before you throw away anymore time on him. Otherwise you'll end up as:

1. middle aged and childless,
2. a stressed out single mum, when he decides parenthood is too much of a commitment,
3. or in a marriage with a reluctant husband who cheats on you.

We're making it way too easy for 'teenage' grown men to shirk any responsibility, but get sex and housekeeping anyway.

It may be old fashioned but love should be (at least one of) the reasons to get married.

In your posts I get you like him but there is no passion, just pratical stuff. You want things in the future that require a partner and as you currently have one you're unsurprisingly planning those with him. He's not the one.

Don't be sad. Not all relationships that end are failures, walk away as friends and remember the good times. Take on board what you've learnt about yourself and want for the future and go find it with someone you really love and loves you back.

Move on from this guy OP.

He is an 'Egg Waster'. That's what I call men who string women along during their most fertile years only to dump them and marry someone else within six months.

Don't waste your time (and your eggs) with him. It will be hard, but it will be worth it.

I wouldn’t stay with someone who couldn’t make up his mind it’s me for better or worse after 7 years. I expected mine to decide after 3 (although he was never as half arsed as your dp sounds). If you’ve made that decision that this is the person then marriage is just the obvious (for people who are into getting married). I don’t think he’s made that decision and he shows no sign of taking it either. Sorry op.

Egg waster - new one on me but sums up these types of blokes perfectly.

OP I was you, but we’d only been together for 4 years. I ended it. I was absolutely gutted but couldn’t bear being strung along with no idea of how long it would take him to be ready. I was also unsure of his feelings for me as he knew how much it meant to me but still wouldn’t change his mind.

It’s been tough, I have to admit. Took me about a year to get over the break up but distracted myself by moving area and changing career. I’ve only just met someone new now, which has taken longer than I thought it would (3 years). And it’s been pretty heartbreaking seeing all my friends get married over the last couple of years whilst I’ve been single. But on the flip side I think it would also have been heartbreaking attending all those weddings with my DP knowing he didn’t want the same thing with me.

It’s such a horrible position to be in, wishing you the best of luck whichever route you decide to take

I'm really sorry to say I agree with everyone else.

I'm old enough now to have seen this happen so many times, to both women and men, although far more to women. It's unfortunately a really common story - woman and man meet, it's pretty good, they grow to love each other, it drifts on, woman wants marriage, man knows in his heart he doesn't want it but is too much of a fucking coward to say so, he strings the woman along, eventually it all goes tits up, woman is left high and dry and possibly infertile, man marries and has a baby within a year. It's like some sort of bizarre script.

I know how hard it is to leave. But believe me, you do not want to waste any more of your precious life on this pointless relationship - if you do you will get sucked in to compromising more and more of yourself until you find yourself with two children, alone on a Sunday while your husband 'who never wanted kids in the first place' is off fucking his secretary playing golf. You have so much opportunity and possibility in your life - grab it!

Chances are, within a few years you'll meet someone who wants everything that you want and suddenly you'll realise just how rubbish this relationship was.

Good luck

You're younger than you think, OK. I never knew a 27 year old who realised how young they were and how much time and potential they still had.

You can't bring up a baby/toddler in a challenging location unless you have access to some kind of foreign diplomats' enclave.

I will, but that's besides the point. I want to get married now, enjoy married life for a bit. That may well include going abroad in that time, but in the knowledge that there's someone to come back to who is committed to spending his life with me. I only plan to have kids 5 years down the line, not now, and I have made this clear.

What I don't want is to go abroad for a year casually tied to this person if the relationship is going no where.

@VladmirsPoutine

Yes, that is what I told myself at the time! It's been quite a few years since the divorce so I've lost more time, but I've also recently met and married a very kind man. I needed time to be open to the idea of being with someone else. To be honest, I sometimes visit the TTC board and look for "older" women so that I have a bit of hope. I still have a chance, I just regret wasting so much time.

Having read pages 1 and 5 he sounds like a tiresome waste of space.

Bin him off. Really.