About the whole 'marriage thing'?

[plummanjelly]

I've name changed for this because it's gonna be super outing.

I'm 27 and partner is 30. We've been together 7 years, since very early 20's. Quite a laid back relationship for most of the time (given our young ages, tumultuous early careers, time out for further study etc.) but in the past year has got a bit more serious (on my insistence - his philosophy is just to let things happen in their own time). I've moved into his flat (rented), attended some family weddings etc.

All this time we've got on well, we connect, understand each other, he's a huge feminist (important to me) and generally have a great laugh. He's generous, kind and supportive, his family are lovely.

EXCEPT - its been 7 years, and since we're happy and definitely know we don't want to break up or see other people, I think it's time we got married. I don't know what else there is to wait for. I'm in a good place career wise, and while there may still be some change and uncertainty (heavy travel, extended foreign postings to very challenging locations), I think this is something we can tackle together. Likewise with his career, there's a lot of uncertainty coming up but I'm happy to support him financially (if required) and otherwise and am confident that he'll come out well on the other side. Marriage will change nothing in our relationship until kids, it's just something I'd like to get out of the way sooner rather than later. We both want to have kids only after marriage, and I'd ideally want to start a family in my early 30's.

He's absolutely adamant that he will not get married right now. He feels that he's still growing as a person and doesn't want to set anything in stone just yet. He also wants to sort out his career before 'settling down'. He seems to think marriage will change something in our relationship fundamentally, that he won't be able to take risks like starting a business etc. He's also concerned that I don't want to move back to his hometown (middle of nowhere) and that I may wish to take up foreign postings and he'd be compelled to accompany me (I'm happy to move alone for periods of time). He's a believer of things happening naturally and believes that one day he will magically wake up knowing that that time is right to take the plunge. He cannot say when that time may be. 2 years ago it was in two years, now its in another 2 years etc. etc. When I bring it up, he's understanding, but can't offer any solution other than why can't we just enjoy the now instead of stressing about the future.

I'm in a state of eternal frustration because of this. I could bite the bullet walk out of an otherwise good relationship and start again, but I just can't bring myself to. I could stay and most likely remain unmarried and childless well into my 30s, also a crap option. I'm not willing to try ultimatums or emotional blackmail (suggested by friends who have successfully used these tactics) because a) it won't work and b) even if it did I really would rather not drag someone kicking and screaming down the aisle.

WWYD

I know someone who finally ended a 12 year relationship because though he was happy for her to live with him and help pay the mortgage, co-own a dog, plan holidays together, and all the rest of it, he refused to marry her. He just wants to stay an eternal 20 year old, so that's going to be pathetic to witness over the coming years (he's 35).

It happened to me OP, I spent 7 years in my 20swith someone i thought id be with for the rest of my life . He said wed get married ' but he wasnt ready 'yet' . One day out of the blue (no warning signs) he just rang and ended it. Just like that, it was over no going back.. ...I was a couple of years older than you..

I was devastated.. it was a terrible time, but I did meet someone else and I did go on to have a child by the time I was 32 .. . (I mourned the exbf for so long though that i think it affected my judgement , as i definitely married and had a child with the wrong person and it didnt last , but thats not the point, I am now happily remarried and i'm now 60 with wonderful DGcs)

The exbf I was so devastated over finally was ready to settle down and married someone when he was in his mid 50s!

Don't be me, OP.. I wish id taken control of my life sooner

I've seen this scenario play out so many times over the years with many friends/colleagues. Almost without exception the couple in question never get married. The most usual outcome is they bimble along for years then split up and the man very quickly meets/marries/starts a family with someone else younger. Not so easy from the woman's side.
Just leave. If he still doesn't want to set his relationship with you in stone after 7 years, he will never want to. You'll do for now.
It's sad, but it would be sadder for you to put your life and ambitions on hold for someone who can't be arsed really doing anything for you.

He wants to split up but wants you to do it.

You are perfectly entitled to split up because you are not happy. You want different things, you've outgrown each other.

If you leave one of two things will happen

1. he will realise his loss and want to try again 2)you will both move on

If you stay only one thing will happen - you won't get what you want happily.

You seem to want different things out of life, at least in the short to medium term. He wants to go at a different pace, move back to his home town, has some job/careers challenges coming up. Does he want children, and if so, when?
You appear to want to do things in a certain order and in a certain time frame (nothing wrong with that). You want marriage first, then children, you accept that your career may take you abroad for extended periods.
Those two outlooks are not really that compatible. Sure, you could muddle along, have children, you work abroad, he's home in the UK with the children. Possibly resenting you, you possibly resenting him.
I think he's being fairly sensible really. I don't have any answers, who does? But it sounds like you know in your heart of hearts that the life he sees himself living, and the pace at which he wants to live it, isn't for you. Not at this time in your life anyway.

After a few years together if any man says they aren’t ready/don’t want marriage what they mean is that they don’t want to marry you
I know it seems like everyone is being blunt with you OP but please take heed of all the advice and experiences the people posting on this thread.
Don’t waste any more time on him, he won’t give you what you want so leave whilst you’re still young enough to have all the options open to you.

I hope you're ok OP.

It's not easy for you to read these responses, but they're all just telling you the truth

He doesn't want to marry you. Chances are he'll stick around until he meets the person he does want to marry, and then he'll break up with you and move on very quickly.

I'm not being horrible, it is just that I've seen this happen so many times.

He's a believer of things happening naturally and believes that one day he will magically wake up knowing that that time is right to take the plunge

And what if he never wakes up knowing? Unfortunately I think men know pretty quickly (within a few years) if they are in it for life. If he STILL isn't sure it really is not a good sign. You aren't asking for anything NOW - by all means you sound like you would be content with a long engagement, but just to have SOME level of commitment and show of willingness/that you are going in the desired direction. I agree with most who say he is just wasting your time. It's heartbreaking and sad and I am very sorry for you.

OP, just go. It will be horrible and sad but you both want different things and he has repeatedly told you that he doesn't want to marry you.

My DH is a terrible procrastinator and avoids change like you wouldn't believe (he has classic traits of Avoidant Personality Disorder) but we are both about to turn 28, have been together six years and married for two. He proposed (willingly!), he was so excited for the wedding and was an active participant in all aspects.

If someone wants to get married, they do it.

What I don't want is to go abroad for a year casually tied to this person if the relationship is going no where

You have a third option, go abroad single and see where life takes you. Way more fun.

Pressed post too soon!

27 is young, yes, but if you keep giving him chance after chance to make a decision you will find yourself another ten years down the line with no marriage and no kids.

If you leave now you have a shot at meeting someone who shares your view of the future. You and your current partner don't seem to agree on any of the major life decisions and honestly, it reads like you'd settle just for marriage and kids with an "okay" guy.

You have obviously just got different ideas about life and how you wan to live it at the moment. That doesn't make him evil or manipulative- he has been honest. If he's not ready, then he's not ready. If marriage is that important to you then it sounds like you need to look elsewhere.

TBH it sounds like you just think its what should be next, move in, marriage, kids and he'll fit the husband role. You don't sound madly in love and desperate to spend your life with him more that you get on well and are generally compatible.

he has admitted again and again that if getting married soon is the only thing I will settle for then we have to break up, but it does make both of us very sad.

I think he wants you to break up with him.

TBH I’d take the foreign posting and have as much fun and get as much out of it as possible - he may have grown up by the time you get back more likely you'll have found something better.

I was with DH 8 years before we married. We met when I was 18 and him a few years older - but last two years we were engaged and we were always on the same page with marriage and children it was a timing issue with our careers pulling us into different locations and joint and well discussed decisions.

I’ve had friends in similar situations it’s usually the classic the guy strings along then gets with someone soon after breakup or they try the desperate get accidentally pg ( they've said that not me assuming) – I know two that’s worked for in that they got married and went on to be family though I got impression they never felt very secure and many more it just hasn’t and they end up single parents with absent or difficult ex.

OP, I really feel for you. It can't be fun hearing all this - sorry.

What worries me re your DP is that he's been given the choice of marriage or never - he picked never.

When someone tells you who they are, listen to them.

He's got everything he wants - Miss Right-for-Now, all the benefits of a LTR with no commitment. Lovely. No way does he want to break up with you and lose all that.

What have you got, exactly - a hope of marriage that is stopping you enjoying brilliant years of being fun and single, or, whisper it, meeting someone who wants to marry and have children, which is what you want.

I would get your feelers out for new chances, if I were you. Having to do that is sad, but nothing like as bad as being shackled to someone who doesn't really love you that much. You can and will do better.

Whatever you choose, even if you get the choice, do not marry anyone who doesn't want to marry you. Ever. Doesn't last.

DH and I got married at 25 because of this stuff - we both had careers that were highly mobile (sadly more in a "I need to be willing to live anywhere to get a job in this field" way than in a "2 years abroad with existing employer, full expat package, promotion on return" sort of a way, but anyway) and being married both helped with visa stuff and also gave us both the reassurance that the relationship was serious enough to commit to job moves and things like that. I think the international aspect brings these conversations forward a bit, you can let things ride along a bit more if you're both based long term in the same place, but even that has a sell by date and it sounds like you've reached it.

As for the "I might make up my mind in a few years" stuff, we've got a friend who did this with his long term GF from she was about 30 to 34, he didn't want to be rushed, he felt it wasn't that romantic her giving him ultimatums, he wanted to pick the ring in his own time etc etc. She dumped him, met and married her now DH and had the first baby within about 3 years. He's still sad about it. You know, maybe he really did love her, but who can wait their whole life for a guy like that to stop faffing?

Your DP has told you very clearly that returning to his hometown to live at some point is very important to him. You don’t want to live in the middle of nowhere. So I’m guessing you don’t want to bring your kids up in the middle of nowhere either. It would be selfish of either one of you to expect the other one to just suck it up. Location impacts on day to day happiness. So you aren’t on the same page about where you’re going to live long term and raise your children.

He is telling you he is not interested in moving overseas. Just like moving back home is important to him. Accepting job posts overseas is very important to you. You say you could go alone. But could you really? That would grow old pretty quickly. And then what about when you have kids. Is it going to be you and the kids overseas while he is in the UK? Again, you aren’t on the same page about something that’s important to you. Your career.

He has told you he doesn’t want to get married yet. It’s been 7 years. How do you know when he will ever be ready? He has told you he needs more time to grow as a person, in other words, he doesn’t know what he wants out of life yet. It’s obvious he is still uncertain about you hence why he can’t make a commitment to you. After 7 years, he knows if he wants you or not. We have all heard of those relationships where the guy refuses to marry someone after x amount of years, they break up and he married the next gf within 12 months! And then he is saying that he wants to start a business, so marrying you and having kids is going to hold him back from that as it will be too much of a risk with a family to support.

I’m sure you don’t just want a wedding or a marriage certificate. You want a life partner. Well then why are you settling? Why shouldn’t you choose someone on the same page, who would enjoy the excitement of living overseas instead of being in the middle of nowhere. Who has already found himself and knows what he wants. How sexy is a man who is sure of himself and knows what he wants and what he wants is you! Someone who longs to be married and have a family.

As someone who wasted 10 years on someone who wasn’t ready for marriage and the excuse was always finacial. Yes, yes you are wasting your time. I don’t care how much you think he is the one ( I thought my ex was the one) there is another man out there that will give you what you want and believe me when you meet him, you will see that he is actually the one. You have settled career wise, don’t settle for love. Seriously, I’d get yourself another place and then move out and call it off and create the space for your future husband to come along. Your dp doesn’t want you which is why he has kept the door open. You are delaying what you want the longer you stay with him. Seriously.

What I don't want is to go abroad for a year casually tied to this person if the relationship is going no where

Probably best if you casually untie yourself. He's not committed to you and I feel you want marriage more than you want him.

This sounds like an example of something often mentioned on MN - the sunk costs fallacy. Woman in your position plough on with a relationship that’s going nowhere because of the effort, emotion, money, and time they’ve already invested, and they feel that it would be a waste of all that to break up.

In fact, the real waste would be to write off the years ahead of you, not the years behind you.

From what you’ve posted, you are ambitious, intelligent and dynamic. Your partner doesn’t share your ambitions, and doesn’t love you enough to commit to supporting yours.

Previous posters have suggested that it’s a lot easier to do your more adventurous career travelling before having children, and you have lots of opportunities to broaden your horizons before settling down.

The danger of staying in this relationship could be that you follow him back to his hometown to keep the relationship going, and he still refuses to marry you or have childrn . Plenty of men in this situation dump their partner for a younger woman that they do marry and have children with - this would leave you stuck in a backwater having given up your dreams.

Things happening naturally;
GF writes to Mumsnet for advice;
Majority say move on.
HOWZAT for things happening naturally!

My opinion is, move on.

I feel you want marriage more than you want him.

It reads like that but isn't quite the case. I'd happily be singe and unmarried if that just happened to be the circumstance right now. It's just that I'm not single, I've been in an LTR for 7 years with someone I really like.

Like? Not love?

Sorry , I even gave an opinion.

Sunk cost fallacy x 10 and also
this

He feels that he's still growing as a person and doesn't want to set anything in stone just yet.

That means he still thinks he might want out of the relationship.

From experience I can tell you being a single 30s male is a lot fucking easier than a 30s woman.

You are 27 which is young but you need to start making plans for your life. Don’t be a passenger and don’t let him time waste you.

I invested far too much of my youth in a man like this. The relationship wasn't all wasted time by any means - there was much that was good about it - but I suffered from wilful blindness and ticking-clock-itis once the time came for committing or not committing. Perhaps the fact that there was so much that was good made it easier to disregard the massive red flags about our differing visions and timetables for the future.

If I could go back in time I would reclaim the last 3 years or so of it and use it better in laying foundations for the future I wanted. (I ended up more than fine without him, btw, and when he came looking for me a few years later I had seen the light and moved on).

Incidentally I don't think these situations are typically about a lack of love on either side - love and commitment are quite different beasts, and the latter is much more about timing and true compatibility - a congruence in visions for the future.

OP you are 27 and have an exciting career - the world is your oyster. I wish you well at what is obviously a tough "crossroads" point in your life's adventure