About the whole 'marriage thing'?

[plummanjelly]

I've name changed for this because it's gonna be super outing.

I'm 27 and partner is 30. We've been together 7 years, since very early 20's. Quite a laid back relationship for most of the time (given our young ages, tumultuous early careers, time out for further study etc.) but in the past year has got a bit more serious (on my insistence - his philosophy is just to let things happen in their own time). I've moved into his flat (rented), attended some family weddings etc.

All this time we've got on well, we connect, understand each other, he's a huge feminist (important to me) and generally have a great laugh. He's generous, kind and supportive, his family are lovely.

EXCEPT - its been 7 years, and since we're happy and definitely know we don't want to break up or see other people, I think it's time we got married. I don't know what else there is to wait for. I'm in a good place career wise, and while there may still be some change and uncertainty (heavy travel, extended foreign postings to very challenging locations), I think this is something we can tackle together. Likewise with his career, there's a lot of uncertainty coming up but I'm happy to support him financially (if required) and otherwise and am confident that he'll come out well on the other side. Marriage will change nothing in our relationship until kids, it's just something I'd like to get out of the way sooner rather than later. We both want to have kids only after marriage, and I'd ideally want to start a family in my early 30's.

He's absolutely adamant that he will not get married right now. He feels that he's still growing as a person and doesn't want to set anything in stone just yet. He also wants to sort out his career before 'settling down'. He seems to think marriage will change something in our relationship fundamentally, that he won't be able to take risks like starting a business etc. He's also concerned that I don't want to move back to his hometown (middle of nowhere) and that I may wish to take up foreign postings and he'd be compelled to accompany me (I'm happy to move alone for periods of time). He's a believer of things happening naturally and believes that one day he will magically wake up knowing that that time is right to take the plunge. He cannot say when that time may be. 2 years ago it was in two years, now its in another 2 years etc. etc. When I bring it up, he's understanding, but can't offer any solution other than why can't we just enjoy the now instead of stressing about the future.

I'm in a state of eternal frustration because of this. I could bite the bullet walk out of an otherwise good relationship and start again, but I just can't bring myself to. I could stay and most likely remain unmarried and childless well into my 30s, also a crap option. I'm not willing to try ultimatums or emotional blackmail (suggested by friends who have successfully used these tactics) because a) it won't work and b) even if it did I really would rather not drag someone kicking and screaming down the aisle.

WWYD

One concern of his is that we do break up over this, lose something good, and then very shortly afterwards he feels like all the other pieces of his life fall together and he'll want to settle down.

Hmmmmm this has a whiff of carrot dangling to me... If he suddenly has a change of heart and wants to settle down WITH YOU rather than the first random woman he meets, then he can come and find you.

I would walk away at this stage. You're worth more than wasting crucial years on a man who may or may not want to marry you and have kids one day. You're in a strong position being so young.

There’s an expression that goes

“Piss, or get off the pot”

And it was made for situations like this. Its up to you now, but your choices are you wait, maybe for ever and never marry.
You wait and if he sees fit you marry.
Or you give him an ultimatum. Tell him, you want marriage, if it’s not for him then he must “piss or get off the pot”if he doesn’t want to commit (after 7 years!) then you are going to find someone who does want marriage.
But if you give an ultimatum and then dont follow through, you’re just setting yourself up for failure (he’ll know he can treat you as disrespectfully as he wants and you will never walk)

If you want marriage, you must tell him. But to be brutally honest, if he says he’s not sure after all these years, he probably never will ask you. I did read somewhere that an engagement that lasts more than 4 years is unlikely to end in a marriage.

I've seen so many relationships like this and they almost always end up with the man moving on to get married and have children with someone else pretty quickly. If your DP wanted to marry you he would do it right now, because he knows it's important to you. The fact that he isn't ready after 7 years means that he doesn't see your relationship lasting. Sorry to say this, but it's better to break up with him rather than to waste your fertile years on someone who won't commit.

“he has admitted again and again that if getting married soon is the only thing I will settle for then we have to break up”

So he’d rather never see you again than get married. There is your answer OP! Don’t waste your time, as somebody mentioned up the thread after you hit 30 things will start to get different, you’ll need a few years to find another partner, then move in together, then get engaged and plan a wedding. I won’t wait that long. It’s better to cut your losses now than regret the time you are undoubtedly going to waste.

The last 7 years are a sunk cost - you cant decide to stay because of that.

Look at the situation right now, do you want to be with a man who doesnt love you enough to marry you - that is what he is saying, so listen to it. Or do you want to be with him no matter what - that is what he is asking you to do, so listen to it.

No amount of wishful thinking will change these facts.

You can decide to leave, stay and wait (hopefully for him to decide to love you enough) or stay and accept that you wont be married and will have to comprise on your decision to not invest financially or in terms of children with him without a marriage certificate. (Do you see that with the final option, you are the one making all the compromises and he is making none...)

'One concern of his is that we do break up over this, lose something good, and then very shortly afterwards he feels like all the other pieces of his life fall together and he'll want to settle down.

Sounds like a long shot, and impossible to predicts, but possible I suppose.'

What about your concerns? What about your wants and needs? Why are you not putting those first, because he is (quite rightly)? Life does not just happen, unless you don't want very much out of it. Adults make decisions, take chances. He doesn't want that, you do. You want to get married and have kids, not at some nebulous time in the future, you don't want to move to his middle of nowhere hometown, you want to try working abroad. Why are you throwing your life away for a man who would never do the same?

My mother said it best, I think. Love is respect, love and respect yourself first.

I'm not into marriage and turned down a proposal, but what strikes me is that he is a 'feminist' but does not really understand why you don't want to go back to his hometown and he is pretty clear that it is his career that matters (you seem fairly convinced that you will support him and give up your career eventually) and he's not keen to make sacrifices for you.

There's something not quite right in all that ...

You need to talk to him about where he stands with having kids and your relationship's long term future. Explain that you are looking to have kids by 30, want to be married before you do and so would like to look at getting married by 29. Since you're 27 I guess this means engaged by...well next year really. If his life plan differs to yours on this then it's time to walk away.

Tbh it does sound as though he isn't sure he wants to stay with you...I wouldn't be surprised if he says that he's just not ready to plan kids etc... if so walk away and find someone who you can build a future with

Stop wasting your time.
He's not wanting to get married, stop trying to persuade him. You don't want a marriage based on twisting his arm.
I'd let him know that at this time in my life I am ready for marriage and family and you are not, so we are no longer compatable and then move out. Or wait another 5 years, pander to his ideas, then panic you are getting to old to have kids. Chnces are you just aren't "the one" I had a BF like this, I always felt he was still looking for "the one" even though he said he was serious about us wanted to get engaged. I left amd married someone else, she too married someone else he dated a very short while so she must have been "the one"

I think you are right to insist on marriage if it's important to you. I was the same but luckily my DH was on the same page.
However, given your DH's opinions about it, I would cut my losses, go abroad, get on in your career, have some adventures and live your life a bit. You're 27 and have been in a relationship since you were 20!! Go out and live a bit and have some FUN! I don't mean going out getting bladdered, having one night stands etc - but travelling, meeting new people, trying out new hobbies and interests.

As to the PP who mentioned that you are 'screwed if you are 35' and still single/childless....well, I politely disagree. I met my DH at 35, married a year later and had two DC (at 38 and 40). So, don't worry about being left on the shelf ;)

I'm sorry he just isn't that certain that you are the one he wants to marry. While I'm sure he likes you and is very fond of you, like the man said ... he's just not that into you.

There is nothing wrong with that but it doesn't fit with what you want in life.

I think you deserve someone who thinks you are the prize of his life and who can't believe his good luck in finding you.

I know it will be hard but I think you should end the relationship. Eventually you will likely meet someone who actively wants to have a life together with you. Brandnewhouse's scenario is likely otherwise.

It sounds like an ok relationship but not the greatest - it's like you've bumped along happily for several years because it has worked but not because you truly need or love each other.

My career is hugely important to me but not more than my husband. I could never move abroad for months without him. Now, many couples could and that's fine but it makes me think you have to ask the question 'is he truly the one I want to be with forever?'

Do you share other goals? Are you confident he wants kids on the same timescale as you? Would you break up if you had to move for your job? Do you see your future as a shared goal you are both working towards? It it marriage in general he isn't keen on, or marriage to you?

If you know he is the one and you are confident you share all your goals except marriage, you could be flexible. But if you don't know the answers to those questions, maybe he's just not the right one for you

A mortgage is much harder to get out of than a marriage so I wouldn’t worry there! He’s obviously not ready to marry you and he’s completelt entitled to that opinion, loads of people rush into it and end up divorced, sounds like he is being sensible to me.

he has admitted again and again that if getting married soon is the only thing I will settle for then we have to break up, but it does make both of us very sad. I'm confident he's not stringing me along to be malicious, but obviously something isn't quite adding up for him.

The something is that you aren't quite right - if he truly, truly loved you then 'we would have to break up' would not be his solution. My OH thinks marriage is outdated and unnecessary but has agreed that it is something we'll do eventually (house first) because I want it, and he wants me to be happy. That was his solution; 'breaking up' isn't something you toss around as one if you love someone. You can do better but it'll fucking hurt in the short term.

what @BrandNewHouse says x 1000

this actually happened to me. I'm fucked now

For me marriage is essential as a legal contract that gives both of us certain rights and secures our future as a couple. I'm not romantic at all, I'm simply not willing to invest in a relationship that isn't locked down. In relationships I always had a 3-year cut-off for proposal or breakup. Often I ended it before that if it was clear the guy wasn't husband material or not likely to commit. It was the only way to ensure I didn't end up wasting years on a guy who'd never fit with my ultimate goal of marriage and kids before the age of 40. I didn't want to end up childless because I wasted years waiting for a guy to commit. I know lots of women who've wasted 5-10 years or more on a guy who, when it came down to it, wasnt committed enough to marry them.

Your DP's words about not having finished growing and not wanting to set anything in stone clearly indicate that he isn't committed to you. I doubt he's against marriage; he just doesn't want to tie himself to you. In your shoes I'd be setting a clear deadline for proposal or breakup and discussing it with DP. By the sound of it he may save you some time and admit he has no intention of ever marrying you.

Huntinginthedark

I'm sorry that happened to you, but no you're not!

Sorry OP but I would walk away.

He wants you to return to him home town, which he knows you don't like. But he's not prepared to follow you aboard if that's where your career takes you?

This won't work. It's all too centred around his wants and needs, it should be a balance between the 2 of you.

That and the whole if getting married soon is the only thing I will settle for then we have to break up tells you all you need to know.

You can do better. You're only 27.

You're his 'will do for now' partner. He is telling you, pretty clearly, that he does not want to marry you. He has every right not to want to marry you.

The other thing is, actually, he is your 'will do for now. You're not actually very compatible in what you really want out of life. You want to travel and explore, he wants to go back to his home town. I think actually both of you want a 'wife' for a longterm partner. I wonder if you are gagging for marriage now because you have been bombarded all your life with the idea of 'marriage and kids' as the top life goal for women, rather than because you love this particular man so much.

Plenty of people have enjoyable relationships with someone who they get on well with, are sexually compatible with and all the rest of it, and it's the 'I can sustain a heterosexual monogamous relationship' box ticked. But then they get married because they think it's what they should do, because the other person is a nice person, and being single is the sign of someone who is immature/wierd/undesirable... And then it all goes tits up fairly soon after the wedding, because what was keeping this couple together was inertia.

Start thinking of all the possibilities your life has - it sounds like you have a wonderful career, for starters. You are 27 FFS. Don't be in a rush to tie yourself down - particularly as you have been with this man since you were barely out of your teens. There is so much more to life than marriage+kids - and you have a good ten years, at least, in which to sort that aspect out if you decide you want to. (It's a myth that it becomes impossible to get PG after 35, based on very old data. Fertility does decline, but not that much.)

One concern of his is that we do break up over this, lose something good, and then very shortly afterwards he feels like all the other pieces of his life fall together and he'll want to settle down.

All due respect OP but all that means is that he wants to have his cake and eat it. He doesn't actually want to go through the discomfort of breaking up with you with no other prospects on the horizon, but nor does he have the slightest intention of marrying you and he's holding out this "my feelings might change... Some day" stuff to keep you sweet for now. Why would his feelings change any time soon if they haven't changed in 7 years? Marriages don't happen by themselves and adults don't wait for stars to magically align. They make decisions and they commit to things.

I agree with PPs: "I don't want to get married yet" means "I don't want to marry you... Ever" and the most likely outcome is that he meets someone else down the line and has her beringed and upduffed right smart.

He does not want to marry you. Not now, not ever. He has pretty much spelled it out - after 7 years, he does not want to 'set anything in stone' and would rather break up than commit. It's not marriage that he objects to, it's marrying you. He does not think you're the one and as others have said, I would not be surprised if you break up and he's married to his next girlfriend in a year.

And besides that, you seem to want different things anyway. You say your career (requiring moving abroad) is the most important thing, but he wants to move to a small town in the middle of nowhere. How will this work?

I think you're right to be confident that marriage and children (in that order) is what you want and stick to that.

I also think you're absolutely right not to try to push him into marriage before he's ready. It sounds like he's enjoying life with you but hasn't yet worked out whether he definitely wants to spend the rest of his life with you. There's no point, and tbh I think he is right not to marry before he is ready: your relationship started pretty young, and most people change quite a bit over the course of their 20s. You don't want to be married to a man who feels that he was pushed into it and then gets cold feet 5 years in when you have small children. It doesn't sound as if he's the type to take marriage particularly lightly, given that he is talking about it changing things so much.

However, this does also mean that you may have to make a hard decision at some point about whether you would prefer to stay with him, understanding that you may then have to get over a very painful break-up and start again in your early 30s, or whether you want to walk away earlier. You are only 27 so you do have a bit of time to work out what you want. The average age for women to get married in the UK is now almost 31 I believe, and for men it's nearly 33, so you're hardly unusual.

Like everyone else, I see no future in this relationship. If it were left up to him, you would still be in a "friends with benefits" kind of relationship. He doesn't want to commit to you. Take the advice of everyone on here - it's unanimous after all - and cut your losses.

If he isn't prepared to make a commitment after 7 years together I would think he is having doubts about the relationship. And possibly rightly so, you do seem to want different things in life.

And what does 'things happen naturally' even mean in this context? Marriages don't ever just happen - you have to make them happen by wanting them, by filling in paperwork and turning up at the venue. What does happen naturally is meeting someone and falling for them. I wonder if that is what he is unconsciously hoping for - that one or other of you will meet someone else, 'know' that that person is the one and have the motive to put an end to this stalemate.

You sound very switched on and capable but I think you are stuck in a bit of a rut here. I doubt you would put up with this sort of contradictory vagueness in other areas of your life. As you say yourself if you accept this you might still be single and childless in your mid thirties when your body clock will be ticking away.

There is nothing wrong with what either of you want but you do not seem to have shared goals and they are very important.