My partner is self employed, works at home, earns very little and rarely gets up in the morning. I'm so frustrated!

[Flexijane]

This is my first time talking on this site so thanks for reading, I'd really welcome some opinions and advice here, thank you!
My partner and I have been together 13 years and have 2 kids under 8.
He started working self employed from home when the first child was born and we agreed that we'd review the arrangement if it wasn't making enough money. I've had a series of steady part time jobs for the same company and although I'm not earning even £20k, it's still much more than him.

He's been supportive of me in my career and flexed his work when I need to work late, etc, but we have always done 50/50 of the childcare as we both feel strongly that we want to bring our own kids up and would rather be poor than any other arrangement.
He's a proud man so has also always insisted on paying 50/50 of all the bills too, however he has only recently admitted that we've only survived because the house bills aside, I've been paying for everything else (most of the holidays, kids clothes etc) plus we write down what we pay for things such as petrol and food in a book, then reconcile it after a few months, but he never ever does this. He waits for me to do it, so then owes me like £600 (for several months of these expenses) which he can't pay straight away so I have to just wait until he pays it.

We've been to couple counselling about this and many other issues we're having, it was kind of useful just thrashing it out, but he is stubborn and refuses to change his job (he would find it very difficult to get work as has nothing on his CV for 10 years or more, although is highly skilled in many ways)
I have tried to be patient all these years - he's a great dad and wants to be there for the kids all the time he can, so doesn't want to take on a low paid job that takes him away from them more - but I'm SO tired of our different views on cashflow.

The counsellor wanted to discuss why we both wanted everything to be 50/50 - I understand why she wanted to look at this, and I said to him I would be happy for us to move to a more proportional income set up (but not a pooled account! We do have a joint bills account) But he won't do this, saying he thinks I would resent him even more, and he could be right, because he can work whenever he likes, often gets up at 11am or later, watches TV late into the night - most people (me included) don't have this freedom! He says he works hard - but I don't see that..

I want us to save up for work on the house, better holidays etc but he never has any money and says he's happy staying at home, not eating out, "the best things in life are free" etc.
I want to chill out, but feel the love I had for him has all but gone, and has turned into resentment, I just don't feel any respect for him anymore.
Would making him get a better paid job regain that respect?
Is this all his problem or mine?
Help!

How many hours do you work?
How many hrs does dh do?
If he works fewer hours than you he should be doing more childcare and housework ... certainly not lying in til 11am

Going against the grain here OP. And I agree he could probably do some sort of additional work to boost his earnings but you mention school drop offs, does he do all the school pickups?
You see if you factor in some of the household/childcare things he does that you may have to pay for if he worked those hours, that should be added in to his earnings as money he has saved in childcare expenses.
Perhaps not explained that too well but I hope you get what I mean.
Also does he sort out teas for the kids? Get food in?
If this was a woman doing this with a part-time job everyone would be fine with it.
As his job is mainly gigging in the evenings and sorting out gigs for other bands, who probably won't be around till after lunch then sleeping later shouldn't be an issue really. His job is more a 12 - 12 job iyswim.
Just trying to put another spin on this really.
He could just be a lazy bastard who is taking the piss. In which case, if you don't love him, get rid.

InDubiousBattleThe idea is 50:50 but not the reality.

He pays half of some bills but not everything. Even then she regularly pays the full bill and he'll pay her back a few months later. That can't be easy on her income with two children to provide for.

He doesn't do 50:50 childcare as the children are in school. He doesn't even do all mornings. So some days while he's lying in OP gets up with the children, gets them off to school on her way to work, then after school and work she's looking after the children while he heads out in the evening. In fact he often lies in bed til lunchtime so I'm guessing isn't doing the majority or even 50:50 of the housework and then watches TV til late after he gets in from 'work'.

I'm not surprised he says he won't leave the family home, on his income alone he'd be in a bedsit or shared house. And not able to contribute towards his children. There's nothing to respect regarding his attitude.

this arrangement is not by agreement
I think it sounds as though it was by agreement but now OP has changed her mind but isn't sure what she wants to change so is laying it all on her DP. They both agreed to work pt. They both agreed to share childcare. They both agreed to pay 50:50 which OP says happens just that she pays earlier and he pays later.
Now OP wants it to change but without sacrificing her pt job; without sacrificing the time they spend with their DCs, etc. Well, it can't change without them agreeing new ground rules. imo the problem is they are both saying they want to work pt; share bills and share care of the DCs but, at the same time, OP wants there to be more money coming in and she wants her DH to change his hours.
MN isn't going to solve this for her because they're already in couples' counselling and all she took out of couples' counselling was that her DH had to change his career. They both need to make changes and re-prioritise.

It sounds like the OP wants to end the relationship but cant because he wont leave the house sp she and the kids would have to do so.

And she would be mad to get even moRe paid work or go full time so he becomes the main carer.

the OP says He says he works hard - but I don't see that

This seems to be the sticking point.

If he's physically at home more and self employed he has to step up with the childcare and I'd suggest housework too. He should be doing all pick ups and drop offs leaving you to get yourself to work. If he can fit a lie in into his busy schedule it shouldn't be a problem.

I think you are meeting him more than halfway. If the finances aren't predictable then you need to feel like he's really pulling his weight in other ways. He is taking the piss. Parenting and working is exhausting. He's picking the bits that suit him leaving you to fill the gaps. Not fair.

If the 'musician' partner was female she would be doing 90% of the housework and childcare. This man simply isn't pulling his weight. And it's all very well to wank on about how 'money isn't everything' when you've got someone else picking up the tab so you're not actually sleeping on the streets.

Does he insist that his 'big break' is going to happen some time soon? It's unlikely that it will, whatever he says - particularly given that he is older than most high-earning musicians. If these bands of his are the sort that just play covers of other people's songs then it's even less likely.

There are flexible part-time jobs he could do - phone surveys, for example. Or, as PP said, giving music lessons. Failing that, he could pick up a lot more of the slack at home.

I think lots of men SAY they want to go 50:50 on the childcare and housework.

When what they mean is

“I am prepared to do you a HUGE favour by doing some of your work. I will reluctantly do 50% of the stuff that is visible to me. As long as it’s things that I enjoy doing and I can do it at a time that suits me. And only if you ask me nicely enough in the correct tone of voice at the correct time and show then massive appreciation for my efforts “

Because housework and childcare is only a piece of piss when women do it. When men do it , it’s A Big Deal.

But if the OP works the same number of hours as her DH, why should he do more because he works from home? That feeds into the fallacy that people who work from home are actually lazing about and can just pick up for everyone else.

InDubiousBattle Exactly what I am seeing and failing to understand the problem.

I don't think the op has said anything about housework? Just money and mornings? If they split mornings with her doing 3 and him 2 then if they split pick up the other way around then they are doing 50:50 surely? They both work pt. If her dp got a day job too then he would be working many more hours than her. What happens in the school Holidays? If he takes care of their dc then that would be a considerable benefit of his working hours too.

The bit that stuck out to me was how your partner's father left so he "will never leave his kids". Yet in a sense, he is doing exactly that by opting out of shared responsibility. It's amazing how we seek to recreate our upbringings, even subconsciously. I think he has issues to resolve (don't we all) as in, it sounds as though his heart is in the right place but he just doesn't "get it".

In your situation, I too would feel resentful - drop offs, evenings, paying most. Or would I? I don't know... if he's great with the kids and good company, maybe it would be nice? Only you know the answer.

I don't know that 50:50 is the issue, I think the issue is that the arrangement is not working for you. And if you can identify what you need from him and he cannot or will not provide or compromise, then your relationship will sour.

Op earns under 20k and he earns a lot less than her. So nowhere near enough to support his family They agreed they'd review the arrangement if he wasn't earning enough, he isn't but is dragging his feet about making any changes.

She isn't suggesting he drops his current job as due to the nature of it it's clearly a hobby (or 'work') he loves and is a big part of his social life but he needs to earn for his family which means an additional paid job with more hours while the children are in school.

In the meantime to pull his weight he should be doing the majority of the childcare and housework, not trying to give the appearance of something like 50:50 (with the OP and his Mum picking up his slack).

Cuppaoftea If he was to get an additional job, would the op be taking on a majority of chores and childcare then? Because at the moment she only works part time herself and could go full time and earn the extra money she wants. I always see on here that when people work from home they don’t do childcare while working, so why should the ops husband do more while working? I’m assuming he works evenings so would be up later meaning he should sleep later because he was working, he then does the childcare and house chores while the op works. I’m struggling to see how the set up they have at the moment isn’t fair. In fact, I will await a response from the op with a breakdown of exactly what they each do and time they work etc and base on that incase I make myself look a fool. From the information available at the moment I don’t see an issue with the set up and believe the onus to earn more money is the person who wants more money to fund an alternative lifestyle to what they have now. Or she can split and pay for childcare and work more hours.

£600 a gig isn’t that much when it’s only once every three months, that’s £50 a week.

If he’s dedicating his full time job hours to it how come he’s not getting more gigs? My friends have a band on the wedding circuit and they have at least one gig a week but usually two because their management is good (and the band is good and do crowd pleasing music).
There is money to be made in the gig circuit especially if you are flexible. I can’t understand why he’s not managing his money better.

I have a job that’s very seasonal but I manage the money I make so i have a regular wage.

The one who stays at home is in charge of getting DC up, dressed, fed and to school with the right stuff in their bags. It really doesn't matter if that parent is a night owl by nature or not. That's their job. The main earner is then free to get themselves ready for work ad out of the house on time, in the right frame of mind.

You need to draw up a new plan. Accept that this 50/50 thing isn't working and never has. Look at the strengths you have: he is a good dad, you say. (Is he? If left to get them clean, dressed, prepped etc, does he? Does he feed them, bathe them, read bedtime stories, ensure teeth are brushed and bags packed and wate rbottles sterilised and mufti days written into the diary and all the other minute stuff that keeps DC's life running smoothly?) If he is, why not just decide to be the major earner and go full time. If he's not then he needs to grow up and do more work either earning or as a homemaker/parent. And stuff 'being a night owl' - that's for students and single people, not parents with children to care for.

If DP is expected to get up and do household stuff in the morning, after working the night before, surely that means that OP should also be expected to do chores in the evening when DP is out at work?I
There's seems to be a lot of ill-feeling about the fact he's a musician - "not a proper job...a hobby" etc - but he can earn £600 in a night ( the equivalent of a week's work), so why is that less favourable than someone working a minimum wage job over 40 hours? If he was a shift worked in a different industry, would that be different? Do people have to do boring jobs they have in order to justify their existance?

I’m assuming he works evenings so would be up later meaning he should sleep later because he was working, he then does the childcare and house chores while the op works.

He rehearses with his bands in the evening (with bandmates who work other jobs in the day), watches TV late in to the night, gigs every three months. Of course he can drop the late night TV viewing and get up with the kids or to work in the mornings. He isn't looking after them through the day if they're in school.

OP also says his Mum gives them loads of help with the kids to support his career . . . to enable him to continue slacking with his family responsibilities more like.

If this was a woman doing this with a part-time job everyone would be fine with it

No they wouldn't because it isn't a part time job, its not a job at all, yet he claims its a full time career! If this was a woman she would be doing all the childcare, all the cooking and cleaning as well. She wouldn't be lying in bed til 11am and going to gigs and band practices every evening

He's a loser.

There's seems to be a lot of ill-feeling about the fact he's a musician - "not a proper job...a hobby" etc - but he can earn £600 in a night ( the equivalent of a week's work), so why is that less favourable than someone working a minimum wage job over 40 hours?

He isn't getting paid for a gig every week, there's sometimes 3 months inbetween. £600 to cover three months isn't much for a father of two.

'If DP is expected to get up and do household stuff in the morning, after working the night before, surely that means that OP should also be expected to do chores in the evening when DP is out at work?'

Yes, of course. Isn't that what everyone does?

He needs his arse kicked about how much help he is with the kids and things around the house, if he wants to continue as he is then he needs to find more hours from somewhere.

I am amazed you are managing to have holidays with 2 small children on such low wages maybe they need to go until things are more stable.

I think you need to sit down together with a spreadsheet and do these sums properly.

There seem to be two problems - one is that your dh doesn’t seem to earn enough, the other that his income is sporadic. Important to separate the two.

So looking first at the amount.....

If you go through all your bills etc for the last couple of years you should be able to work out how much you need to keep your house and family going. Personal spends - you each pay for your own so add to your own totals. You then need a way of working out what to do about “extras” that you think are necessities and he is less bothered about. (And anything he wants and you don’t.) How about a split of 70:30 for “family extras”. I don’t think he should be obliged to pay for 50% of expensive wallpaper just because you really like it but on the other hand he shouldn’t be able to say “we don’t need a new roof - let’s just buy a bucket for the leak” either.

Once you each have an “earnings need” total you can look at how much you do earn. Do you earn enough? If not - what is the shortfall? Can you bump up your hours to fix this.

What about him. How does his earnings over the last couple of years compare with this? If he doesn’t earn enough how can he earn the shortfall? Can he sign some more bands? In the short term can he get a night shift each week in tescos to bump the cash up?

The important thing is that you have all this written down, recorded and agreed. Right now he thinks he is doing his share and you don’t. You need to know and have it in black and white.

There's seems to be a lot of ill-feeling about the fact he's a musician - "not a proper job...a hobby" etc - but he can earn £600 in a night ( the equivalent of a week's work), so why is that less favourable than someone working a minimum wage job over 40 hours?

Its not about him being a musician at all, and if he was earning 600 a night regularly it would be very different. But he isn't. He rarely does.
We're not saying its not a proper job because its music, but because its not a proper job.

He's been pretending his hobby is a career for a decade and letting his wife carry him along in life. He's doing as he wants and she is supporting the family.