My partner is self employed, works at home, earns very little and rarely gets up in the morning. I'm so frustrated!

[Flexijane]

This is my first time talking on this site so thanks for reading, I'd really welcome some opinions and advice here, thank you!
My partner and I have been together 13 years and have 2 kids under 8.
He started working self employed from home when the first child was born and we agreed that we'd review the arrangement if it wasn't making enough money. I've had a series of steady part time jobs for the same company and although I'm not earning even £20k, it's still much more than him.

He's been supportive of me in my career and flexed his work when I need to work late, etc, but we have always done 50/50 of the childcare as we both feel strongly that we want to bring our own kids up and would rather be poor than any other arrangement.
He's a proud man so has also always insisted on paying 50/50 of all the bills too, however he has only recently admitted that we've only survived because the house bills aside, I've been paying for everything else (most of the holidays, kids clothes etc) plus we write down what we pay for things such as petrol and food in a book, then reconcile it after a few months, but he never ever does this. He waits for me to do it, so then owes me like £600 (for several months of these expenses) which he can't pay straight away so I have to just wait until he pays it.

We've been to couple counselling about this and many other issues we're having, it was kind of useful just thrashing it out, but he is stubborn and refuses to change his job (he would find it very difficult to get work as has nothing on his CV for 10 years or more, although is highly skilled in many ways)
I have tried to be patient all these years - he's a great dad and wants to be there for the kids all the time he can, so doesn't want to take on a low paid job that takes him away from them more - but I'm SO tired of our different views on cashflow.

The counsellor wanted to discuss why we both wanted everything to be 50/50 - I understand why she wanted to look at this, and I said to him I would be happy for us to move to a more proportional income set up (but not a pooled account! We do have a joint bills account) But he won't do this, saying he thinks I would resent him even more, and he could be right, because he can work whenever he likes, often gets up at 11am or later, watches TV late into the night - most people (me included) don't have this freedom! He says he works hard - but I don't see that..

I want us to save up for work on the house, better holidays etc but he never has any money and says he's happy staying at home, not eating out, "the best things in life are free" etc.
I want to chill out, but feel the love I had for him has all but gone, and has turned into resentment, I just don't feel any respect for him anymore.
Would making him get a better paid job regain that respect?
Is this all his problem or mine?
Help!

That is not a business op, thats a hobby, he does sound lazy and l couldn't tolerate that lack of drive to contribute more than the bare minimum, most would not be happy with that arrangement.

What happens when there are unexpected bills, the boiler breaks etc? What is you became ill for an extended period? Do you have savings?

There os a world of difference between not having time to see his kids and working say 20 more hours in school hours, which would take the pressure off.

He is BVU and sadly as others have said your love for him will fade away if nothing changes.

Get some legal advice so you know if you could stay in your home should you split.

Slievenamon But the op is able to support them and is doing so. Why does he need to be specifically the one to support?

He needs to do his share! He is not doing so. She is working far harder than him and is exhausted, he gets out of bed at 11am and sits up at night watching TV...how can you not see the issue here?

He doesn't have a job, he has a hobby. He could easily work and do this too for extra money.

He's massively taking the piss, you do 3 school drop offs because you're better on the morning and you're getting up anyway!? Stop enabling this man-child, you go to work and he's at home all day whilst his band mates and bands he manages are at work? What does he do all day?

He's conning you.

I feel for you op. I think the first thing that needs to change is the school drop offs. He’s not working anything like standard hours, so he should do all drop offs or maybe 4 out of 5 in order to make things easier for you, who is working. Honestly though, I think he is taking the piss and you need to take a harder line and be less accommodating. He’s not behaving like an adult with bills to pay. He knows you will carry him and he can just come up with the cash when it suits him.

Does it not boil down to you wanting different things out of life. You have things that you agree on, no childcare, paying 50/50 etc, but then you also want different things, he's happy to enjoy a lie in, spend time as a family, living where you and and carrying on as you are. You want things to get better, to have nicer holidays, do things that cost. He's happy as is, you're striving for better. Neither is wrong, but unless one of you give in or you can find a happy middle ground it's never going to work.

I'm with you, I want my quality of life to keep improving, more holidays, more money to spend on things etc. It's just who I am. DP is the same so for us it works. In the mean time we are happy with what we have but are aiming to keep climbing the employment ladder and having more. I'd quite like to have a reasonable home here and a villa abroad eventually (Brexit allowing). What are your aims? Can you get them on paper and take to your next couples councilling as see what he thinks?

I just read your post about him being a musician. My friend is a musician and she also works as a teacher. She manages to do both, which involves class planning and going to various gigs at night.
I think your dh needs to get a day time job as well, if he is serious about everything being 50/50 and he also needs to do his share of the household chores. He may be rubbish in the morning, but he is an adult and he has responsibilities. It can't be all on your shoulders.

My mum started managing my dads band, then a few others and eventually grew her own entertainments agency out of it all so it can be done. But what my mum managed, that is a career. And it supported us all through childhood. My dad still played in the groups and stuff.

Your OH does not have a job, I agree with others. He has a hobby. A manager is not needed to supervise rehearsals. he is there to book them into places, advertise, promote, and oversee transport etc.

It is odd that the OP declares they do 50/50 childcare and yet then we find that he is out a great deal of evenings with the groups.......OP, do you get the same social life as he does? because he is not working when he does that.

Does it not boil down to you wanting different things out of life

yes he wants to act like a teen in his 40's and she wants to be a responsible mother and adult who doesn't have to carry him along like an extra child.

I don't really understand this thread. If the roles were reversed and the husband was making more money than the wife, would the replies on here by the same I wonder. I also don't understand how a couple who have been together for so long and have children don't just put their finances together and treat income as household income rather than two individual incomes.

Does sound like a conflict in lifestyle and I don't think you can 'make' him want more money. Some people just don't see money as being that important, and value time spent with people instead.

Slievenamon, you say he's not supporting his family in any meaningful way, yet OP says he pays half of all the bills and they split the childcare 50/50.
My point about him not necessarily being the problem is that the other things the OP says she "has" to pay for, e.g. holidays etc, are the things she has stated she wants out of life, but which he isn't bothered about.
Some people want more out of life, some people are happy with less - who's to say which is right?

That sucks OP

I think it is mostly his attitude that sucks

My DH works full time, and me part time. In theory I could stay in bed until 9 every morning

But I get up at 7 as well, make sure the kids have everything they need, discuss who picks up whom or things like that. It is a solidarity thing.

You need to let go of this "halves" business, and just let him do ALL mornings. He should also do a bigger percentage of housework and drudgery (I do)

Once he works as many hours as you, you can go back to doing "halves"

Tbf, he's having a laugh, no wonder you are cross.

Exactly, ParisUSM.

I don't really understand this thread. If the roles were reversed and the husband was making more money than the wife, would the replies on here by the same I wonder
'
Thats missing the point. If the wife was arsing about at a hobby and pretending it was an actual career and saying she was paying while actually not and saying she was doing half the childcare while actually not, they would be much the same.

Slievenamon, you say he's not supporting his family in any meaningful way, yet OP says he pays half of all the bills and they split the childcare 50/50

actually if you read carefully she says in reality he does neither.

I think your wish is that he would contribute more so that you could have some of the things in life that are not free and can see that it must be galling when he leads such a lazy life.

Surely he has time to take on some other work? I think the idea of music lessons is good. Otherwise what about some seasonal work e.g. exam invigilating? Once he gets some more work, it might get him more acclimatised to the world of work. Could he lecture about what he does at a local college? I think the trick might be to find something that interests him and then it will take off. If all else fails, maybe some unpaid work to start with.
I certainly would not be putting up with him lounging in bed whilst I was getting up and out for work! The least he can do is make you a cuppa and help get the kids ready.

Wow OP! I was you 5-6 years ago. Married to a layabout 'musician', always on the edge of 'making it big'. Granted he was very good at what he did but he used it as an excuse for not getting proper work and me and my very generous family helped to prop up our lives both financially and helping out with childcare etc. He won't change - either accept that this is how your life is, or make some changes yourself. When I was with my ex, I hated my life; I hated that I had no control over the fact we were always struggling for money and having to borrow from my family; I hated that my children never experienced proper family life because he was out gigging or rehearsing in the evenings and then slept in in the mornings. Any 'holidays' would be weekends camping at music festivals so we could watch Daddy, except that I then had to deal with getting the children to bed and staying with them in the tent while Daddy went off partying/drinking/drugs etc and then slept it all off the next day. I f*cking hate music festivals!! So what you get to meet some well known musicians - who cares, they're just normal people. Sorry, I've gone off on a rant here.... "Luckily" for me, I found out he'd been cheating on me repeatedly which was the excuse I needed to end our marriage and I've never looked back. LTB may not be what you want to do but as I said before, he won't change...

He sleeps in until 11am? That's not 50/50 parenting.

He's out in the evening at rehearsals/gigs? Not 50/50.

You pay for all the bills then he pays you back months later? How the fuck is that 50/50 parenting?

I am amazed you have put up with this for so long.

There are plenty of women arsing around selling stuff on ebay and making very little - I just don't think they'd be talked about in the same way as the OP's partner is.

why should he get another job for extras that he doesn't actually want? Why does the OP's wishes override his? Couldn't the OP work full time rather than part time?

So he lies in in the morning while you get the kids to school?

You also pay for holidays/kids clothes?

Why don't these items go in your book?

Why can't he teach like every other musician?

The thing is you're calling him stubborn for not doing what you want but he could equally call you stubborn for wanting him to get up early on the mornings he doesn't have to . . .or for wanting him to earn money in a certain way.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong in what he's doing. When my DC were small, I freelanced from home. My clients were in different time zones so most of my work was at and through the night. I would have been pissed off if my DH decided I had to be up early every morning when actually my work was at night. Luckily he didn't equate different working hours with laziness. We made our different income levels and working hours work for us and our DC.

The problem is your arrangement doesn't work for you. But I think you need to be realistic. You can't change him so are you frustrated and unhappy enough to end the relationship over this?

Lazing in bed in the morning whilst you get up, do a school run and then head in to work?

Seriously?

He should be doing all the childcare and the housework in my opinion. Any time he needs for his hobby / work from home bullshit can be negotiated against pulling his weight to support the main breadwinner.

And please stop allowing him to think he contributes 50% - he doesn't at all. If you didn't have the money to sub him then your entire lifestyle would collapse.

He is lazy.

Paris children's clothes aren't extras but he can't contribute to them.

They're supposed to be 50 50 that's what they agreed they wanted. That's why the op isn't full time.

I’m sorry I just don’t see the issue. He is fine with what they have so doesn’t really have an incentive to earn more. I do think he should get up for school runs when he hasn’t had a late night though. Nothing stopping him doing that and then heading to bed when back to catch up on sleep if he feels he needs it. If the op is only working part time and wants more money then surely she should work full time to achieve that? I would tell him though that if you work full time that he has to take on all the childcare (while not actively working) and majority of household chores. That way the Op could afford more things in life. I don’t understand such separate way of viewing finances though, again this could be down to me and my partner being on benefits and although we have some paid into each account it is all pooled together and bills taken care of if we each need anything then we budget for it. We chose to be together so our money is pretty much equal. The op shouldn’t complain about paying more when he is short because it is both of their money for their home and children, when he gets paid more then it goes into bills that need taking care of. If they can afford all that they need I really don’t see the issue. I also don’t like the way it’s worded that he pays her back, no he isn’t. He is just paying more when he can, the op paying bills is what she would have to do regardless of their situation as a couple. She could split and then work full time and put the children in childcare. She wouldn’t be any bette riff though.

"Lazing in bed in the morning whilst you get up, do a school run and then head in to work?

Seriously?

He should be doing all the childcare and the housework in my opinion. Any time he needs for his hobby / work from home bullshit can be negotiated against pulling his weight to support the main breadwinner.

And please stop allowing him to think he contributes 50% - he doesn't at all. If you didn't have the money to sub him then your entire lifestyle would collapse.

He is lazy."

re-read this and replace 'he' with 'she'. What would people's reactions be?

It sounds like the correct thing to do would be for him to get a part time job to top up his income. I am a freelance photographer and for a couple of years I was doing just that full time, but when I couldn't pay for my part of the rent for 2 or 3 months I got another job. I then started working full time in an office plus doing my photography stuff on the side (as I do mainly wedding photography and it is happening on Saturdays most of the times). It didn't feel right to me.
However...I have to say that it seems to me that if the situation was the other way round (if he was the woman), he wouldn't been so harshly judged.

why should he get another job for extras that he doesn't actually want? Why does the OP's wishes override his? Couldn't the OP work full time rather than part time?

Clothes for the children aren't 'extras'. As I understand it he will eventually every few months pay back half of the main household bills like mortgage/rent, council tax, utilities (don't know if OP is including food in that) but she pays for everything else. On a part time wage under 20k. I live in the North of the UK where the cost of living is (relatively) cheaper but here with 2 kids and partially supporting a partner that would be tight.

He's massively taking the piss. He needs to get a full time job but in the mean time should be doing the majority of the school runs and housework. You're heading out with the kids to school and work, he should be up doing the dishes, laundry, hoovering etc. to support you.