pt.2 To find floral tributes being left for Harry Vincent offensive

[lostjanni]

We reached the post limit so if anyone wants to carry on the discussion...

They are a nasty lot, HV family, the youngsters in that have no hope. They are the type not to receive any outside help, and will probably be off the radar for authorities.

I don't feel sad for the family either and you can't shame people into feeling something they don't. I'm someone who normally over empathises- I suffer anxiety, cry and fret about things I read and see in the news. A recent story haunted me for weeks, I couldn't sleep. But this particular man and his family? Nah. The way they have conducted themselves since, the things they are saying, I can't summon up the energy to care how they feel.

I don't feel sad for the family either and you can't shame people into feeling something they don't
Not shaming, just interested. I don't know how anyone can't feel sorry for the children. Anyone with any empathy at all couldn't help it at least a little, surely
I'm someone who normally over empathises

Sorry but I find that hard to believe.

I also know other travellers. Sadly, I've known two who have pretended not to be from the travelling community, who have even joined in the prejudicial discussions at work, so not to be identified as a 'pikey' and risk the labelling and prejudice against them that might entail

Or maybe they just wanted to leave the old ways behind and be a modern integrated person

What do people even mean by the term 'traveller'?
An English Romany Gypsy (most who settled into housing centuries ago)
An Irish Traveller (not an ethnic Gypsy)
Roma (similar to Romany but poorer and from the Balkans)
New Age Traveller (anyone who is a bit of a pothead hippy, an ild van and a dog on a string)

'Traveller' is a modern catch all term that doesn't have any historical or ethnic context . Anyone can call themselves 'a traveller'. It doesn't mean anything and even many 'travellers' don't even know what it means

I don't really care what you believe. I've lost my parent as a child, I know how I feel about things.

The family really shouldn't be bringing the kids into the shrine circus with their repeated "dear daddy" letters.

I don't really care what you believe. I've lost my parent as a child, I know how I feel about things

And yet you can't summon up any sympathy for another child going through the same, because their parent was a bad person? Is that how people give out sympathy?

You can give out sympathy however you see fit, as can I. All this is about is you trying to say how much better you are, and how worthy you are, because you feel such sympathy for people who wouldn't give two shits for what some random on MN thinks. And my Mum died because she got ill aged 30 and not because she was terrorising pensioners with a weapon.

The family really shouldn't be bringing the kids into the shrine circus with their repeated "dear daddy" letters

I agree. It is both mawkish and agressive and antagonistic. I am sceptical that it is done with the best interests of the children at heart.

The "tributes" seem to extend some distance along the fences on the opposite side of the street. Presumably these fences belong to the houses there? If it were my house and fence I would remove them.

And yet you can't summon up any sympathy for another child going through the same, because their parent was a bad person? Is that how people give out sympathy?

I can feel sympathy for the children and equally feel that these tributes are offensive and are designed to be aggressive and stir up trouble than to be of any real comfort to the children.

"No the point was that you seemed to think noone should have cared about him at all. Which likely nopone did, which is why he went as bad as he did"

Slie Would you have posted the same thing to a poster who had posted about domestic abuse................Would you be expecting his wife to have compassion for him and trying to guilt trip her about it?

I can feel sympathy for the children and equally feel that these tributes are offensive and are designed to be aggressive and stir up trouble than to be of any real comfort to the children

Of course you can. But I'm worried about posters that don't have the slightest care for the children. It's disturbing.

All this is about is you trying to say how much better you are, and how worthy you are

What a nasty way you see the world. No sympathy for grieving abused children, and you think anyone who does is only saying it to look good. I feel sympathy for you and your negative and uncompassionate view of the world.

Slie Would you have posted the same thing to a poster who had posted about domestic abuse

children are not adults.

It was a bit unfortunate watching Nicola Horlick saying she fully agreed with the action the authorities were taking to prohibit the shrine - and the audience and others pointing out that in fact the authorities were protecting the shrine.

No I think anyone who goes on and on about it is trying to make themselves look good. People don't have to feel what you tell them to. People's feelings are their own, shaped by their own experiences. But keep telling others how disturbing and awful and nasty they are for not joining you in your feelings.

They have had to cut-off and switch off their empathy and humanity just to survive

And they do that by brandishing screwdrivers at old people and scamming them out of money? Their choice.

Apparently one of the people who removed the flowers has been targeted with racist abuse.

Its not clear whether or not it was a member of the Vincent family though.

Of course you can. But I'm worried about posters that don't have the slightest care for the children. It's disturbing

I feel sorry for the children being in what apears to be a pretty horrible family ; a family which is demonstrating its lack of decency and empathy by continuing with this pantomime of "tributes".

People havent said a bad word against his children very much the opposite

Yes they have. There were two or three really unpleasant posts on here slagging them off earlier - fortunately they were deleted.

Yes but the plod disagree. They want the intimidating shrine to remain there.

No, they don't. There's a difference between saying "Don't take it down because it just aggravates the situation unnecessarily and is liable to cause a breach of the peace" and "Don't take it down because we want it there".

Wow slieve- so travellers "abuse" their children and you KNOW they're growing up in a terrible environment? Those are some pretty huge assumptions.

It's a criminal environment where their family thinks the law doesn't extend to them. That doesn't mean the kids are necessarily starved or suffering.

And they'd laugh their heads off at your extended hand of friendship. I've seen travellers demand £30k from a charity to vacate a plot of land. They didn't care one bit.

My greatest level of sympathy is for the poor elderly couple who were brutally targeted, have not been able to return to their home, may never feel safe there again, and indeed are highly likely to find that this episode cuts their lives short.

I can feel sympathy for the children of the criminal, as they are innocents in this.

I feel sympathy for the other elderly people who have been traumatised by this criminal bastard, and had their declining years made so much scarier, and potentially shorter.

I feel sympathy for the other residents of the estate, many of whom may well also be vulnerable or elderly, who are having their peaceful enjoyment of their homes disrupted.

I'm afraid that I struggle to find sympathy for the adult relatives of the career criminal who died in the course of a crime. After all, if he really did turn to crime due to problems in his upbringing, the fault was theirs. If not, they still know what he was doing, and are deliberately intimidating the elderly vulnerable couple whose home and safety the criminal deliberately and with malice invaded. And they are further intimidating by their own behaviour. If they just wanted a memorial, they could do so with minimal interference by siting it at the criminal's home, rather than at the site of his victims' home.

I do feel some sympathy for the police. I suspect that their hands are tied.

I'm not especially glad that this bastard of a thug is dead. I don't think I've ever celebrated anyone's death. But he went into commit his crime armed. As far as I'm concerned, that makes his death effectively self-inflicted. So, no celebration. I'd have preferred him to be locked up (for a lot longer than the law currently provides). But at least he won't terrorise any more of our elderly, so I can't say I particularly mourn. And an ostentatious shrine within sight of his victims' home? That's viciously intimidatory.

No I think anyone who goes on and on about it is trying to make themselves look good. People don't have to feel what you tell them to. People's feelings are their own, shaped by their own experiences. But keep telling others how disturbing and awful and nasty they are for not joining you in your feelings

You wrote this without the tiniest pang of irony, didn’t you?!

Aren't the children probably better off without Screwdriver Daddy in their lives?

I mean, it's not as if he was a very nice person, is it? (understatement of the century there).

On MN, if a woman described having a husband or partner who was like Henry Vincent, we'd all be telling her to get herself and her children away from him as soon as possible, not trying to maintain a relationship between them.

If you knowingly trespass into and violate other people's homes, you should forego your human rights. How many here know how threatening and terrifying being burgled is? Your home is never the safe, private space it once was afterwards.

Too many bleeding hearts.