pt.2 To find floral tributes being left for Harry Vincent offensive

[lostjanni]

We reached the post limit so if anyone wants to carry on the discussion...

Mydog, precisely when have I said that I was sad at the burglar's death?

Dear me, that seems to be another myth you are peddling. Or would it be too strong to refer to it as an outright lie?

lost I think for a start the police should take down those bloody flowers and threaten VH's family with some kind of arrest if they carry on putting them back up. Harassment/intimidation? I don't know, something.

I'm not celebrating VH dying but I do wondr if it would have been better for him to be brought to justice. Obviously it would have been better for him, and his family but for the Osbourne-Brookes? I suspect they would have faced a sustained programme of intimidation before the trial and possible retribution attacks after it. And he would have got a couple of years if the judge was feeling particularly harsh that day, out in 12 months and then back to business as usual. So more victims and not better for society either.

So what do you suggest they do if they have no power of arrest for this offence?

I thought part of the Police’s role was prevention of crime too.

As others have observed, the Police can make things happen when they want to. In this case they wouldn’t need to act outside their powers to prevent the shrine, but they are making a tactical judgement. There are plenty of cases of questionable tactics used when it suits them.

I have also said I accept it’s difficult and it’s a judgement call as they are in a difficult position.

Have you read the judgment, mydog? I'd be interested in your views on the submissions on the vires challenge, fundamental rights and the applicability of the Prison Act 1952 (particularly s239(5)), and the effects of the decision in R (Daly) v Secretary of State for the Home Department

But the point is, of course, that the law was available in the Worboys case and rectified the Parole Board's errors. There is no reason to assume that the law would not operate properly in the case of a repeat aggravated burglar.

I'm always fascinated with the Mail type perception that no conviction ever results in more than a few months' imprisonment at most. Prison officers would be seriously bemused as to how that accounts for the fact that they are having to guard thousands of people who are inside for years on end.

I spend a lot of time working in the courts, I see many more non-travellers in the dock.
Well, surely that would be down to the fact that, proportionally, there are fewer travellers in the population than non-travellers?

The independent reports a new message "from the children" saying: "these people won't get us down. We love you dad".

It's right there in black and white - they see themselves as separate and they talk about not being "got down" when their vile relative has been exposed to the country as the pensioner targeting thieving sack of shit that he was.

This family simply does not see things like the rest of civilised society if they can put things like that.

Can I just say- seem to have missed a post- how can anyone think it would be acceptable to charge a woman for killing the man who was trying to rape her, dragging her through a trial and further traumatising her? Jesus.

So it’s not a breach of peace to tie flowers to someone else’s property but it is possibly a breach of peace to remove them?

It's all about easy targets nowadays - lets threaten to charge people who's livelihoods would be affected by having a criminal charge rather than the people who won't give a shit & will kick off.

It's lazy, box ticking policing - it's the way it's going.

Speed cameras - auto ticketing. Despite the fact that more deaths are caused by dangerous, negligent driving (which cameras won't pick up).

Get as pissed as you like, as long as you don't break the speed limits you're likely to get away with it.

You'll only get caught texting while driving after the accident when they're going through your phone.

I know it's not the ground level officers that make these decisions, but they're the ones that end up looking like work-shy, lazy buggers picking on the easy targets.

So what if you need a company of Squaddies in Riot Gear to escort the police into a traveller site to look for suspects? The Squaddies would rather be doing that than emptying bins, delivering coal, dragging old ladies through floods in dinghies and all the other crap the government is quite happy to throw at them when they're back from getting their legs blown off.

Lack of willpower from the top down....

You see worryingly they’re moving themselves into the victim role. They are the only ones to have lost out. Objectors to the statement fence of flowers are the oppressors.

It’s risible.

They also referred to Mr OB as a 'lowlife' and said he wouldn't come and face them. And people still think this isn't solely about intimidation?

In this case they wouldn’t need to act outside their powers to prevent the shrine, but they are making a tactical judgement. There are plenty of cases of questionable tactics used when it suits them.

Exactly, if ASBOs can be issued preventing more than 3 of our children from hanging around together in a town centre, I'm sure one can be issued forbidding provocative flower placement.

People like HV hate the police and yet the police seem to treat them with kid gloves. So bullies win. Hopefully this will all die down soon and the people in that street can go about their normal lives in peace. The police have got some serious negotiating to do. The shrine has to go. I'm not glad HV is dead, but I think some people on here have a serious Lord Longford complex going on. HV came from a culture which is really insular. They don't care about middle class Mnetters hand wringing on their behalf. They despise you for being weak.
I did happen to teach some traveller children in the past. They were lovely children but education was not a priority.

@SaucyJane. Precisely, they're not a civilised bunch, who are not thinking straight in grief, they're a family with criminal routes, who glorify criminal activity and use the name 'travellers' as an easy way to shout racism / discrimination if people tell them the truth, that they're vile scum and honestly are taking up valuable oxygen.

Luckily for many on this thread the police treat everyone the same. Even those if you who hate us.
Many in here can vouch for me and many if my fb friends are from Mumsnet I used to post a lot more. I have stayed up all night with the wife of a drunk driver on here before now. And many victims of dv. Threads like this put me off posting these days.

I also agree with the poster about the army, they do a great job on tours, and obviously need to visit families and be with their family when they return as well as train for further tours, but i for one would support 100% having the army start patrolling some of the troublesome cities / towns to provide back up to the local police to deal with this wave of violence. And now is the perfect time, use the squaddies, assult the camps and start searching for the other scumbag.

@stillvicarinatutu. Why doess it put you off posting? That people say they shouldn't be intimidating a family and community? And that the family are low life scum,?( cause check their records) Or that the criminal who broke into a flat, threatened an old man with a screwdriver while his accomplice was also in the house which had a lady with dementia in it, got stabbed and you know what he actually deserved it?

Because a lot of the time I think the attacks on police are attacks on me. I do a very thankless job to protect the likes of all of you saying how shit I am. We are. Because we won't just do what you want.
I used to be in here loads and I have supported many mumsnetters past. I've stayed up on my nights off to help people and support them with advice and I get what? People calling liar? Saying I should do what they want it I'm a disgrace to my profession? It's because I follow the law that I'm NOT a disgrace to my profession. I'm not a puppet to use as the public see fit. I'd love to see the face of the custody Sgt for the first Bobby that arrests for littering....
I'm sorry but there are too many armchair warriors on here for me to even try to explain police powers. I tried.

oneFoot

Yes poor mum. They didn’t catch the scum but I expect no remorse they are inhuman.

I complete understand your worry about your son. Some people are beyond the pale of wicked

Still

Look I think most mumsnetters and the public appreciate you guys on the beat.,we can however criticise higher authorities and the judiciary as I am sure you do too.

I havent replied on any of the threads but this is my opinion.
he broke into someone's house, did he deserve to die...no but you don't get to tell someone how they should react when you bother them.
However he had relatives who obviously loved him but they shouldn't be putting flowers in the guys house that is what his grave will be for.

You realise i'm a police special right vicar?

still
the problem is the good officers do not speak up against the bad ones this is why people critise the police so much.
I have seen and heard police do evil things to people I know including lying on statements to get someone evicted and nothing happens to them
police can turn your life up side down with little punishment

so sorry if you're a good cop but I am sure you have seen things bad ones have done and sat silent.

I agree, people are allowed to criticise the police, it's not an untouchable service, but it seems to operate some times like it is.