pt.2 To find floral tributes being left for Harry Vincent offensive

[lostjanni]

We reached the post limit so if anyone wants to carry on the discussion...

I am defending Mr Vincent.

Can't read any further after that crap.

What was pointed out there was that, with a better upbringing, Vincent may not have grown up to be a criminal, he would be alive, and his victims would have been left in peace. Is any of that actually untrue?

Isn't this just saying that if a criminal hadn't been born into a criminal family, he wouldn't have been a criminal.

To give Vincent a better upbringing would have meant taking him into care. And even then I doubt it would have worked; his parents would just have come for him.

I think there's often a lot of naivety on mumsnet about the criminal fraternity in Britain.

Does anyone remember how those two lads who put up fb posts saying they may riot (just after the 2011 riots) got arrested and threatened with prison. Did they serve any time? I cant remember.

Surely if the Vincent family are making threats the same should apply

User sorry about your brother and father, must be a terrible loss.

Did they die tooled up breaking into an OAP’s house? I’m guessing unlikely and their dad demise wasn’t a consequence of criminal decision making,

You’re really off-piste with this criminals actions and Ant though, perhaps your relly can explain more for you.

Finally before I leave you all to virtue signal your dusgust and outrage. Please look up the law of the country you live. You may then understand why the police act as they do. Ie in accordance to the law.
They luckily aren't criminals or vigillantes, who both sadly ignore those laws.
Instead if been keyboard warriors, become a special constable, community volunteer or like my Ds join the cadets and help the sodding police. God do they need it

the police would have more support if they actually grew a pair and intervined in this case instead of parading up and down with their horses and doing nothing

now we have the top police guy what looks like siding with the travellers

its no wonder people dispair

So User as Police support Staff you are defending a criminal, who was killed by somebody defending themselves. Right, that is all!

Have you signed up too User?

Sorry i am Not defending Mr Vincent. It should say. No my brother died in a car crash. My dad killed himself over the grief off losing his son, less than 12 months later.
So I feel sympathy for all involved.
Sorry if you think I am a monster. I aren't I am under educated and don't also proof read my posts and dyselix and can't always see where I miss words out.

Meanwhile have I skimmed past Planet Elendon; surely there aren’t people saying travellers kids should be taken off their parents to prevent their moral compass wigging out?

Didn’t we pretty much prove that was a FUBAR in Australia in the 50’s?

Tts,
No but I don't slag the police off on the internet.

So you see User although your folk sadly died, they died in unforeseen circumstances where they had, or felt they had, no choice.

It isn’t the case with the dead career criminal at all.

I figured you’d made a typo by the way.

Gosh @HelenaDove I had completely forgotten about those two lads!

We had vicar here the other day explaining the police constraints. People do understand that, but surely you can also see their utter frustration that all the deck seems loaded toward the provoking party.

User Your brother and died in tragic circumstances, not committing crimes like Mr Vincent. Yes I understand his family are grieving for his death, most of us are not and don't feel sad at his demise.

Sorry I know. But someone on other thread said about boy racers dying and link them to these flowers.
Also I am not griefing for him either.
But why start a part 2.
God everyones extending this.
If the flowers had gone up. Left they would be dead in less then a week, Vincent would br buried and people move on. But now we upset family members going daily to repair the flowers and idiots reremoving them

I like every sane person in Uk i want Mr OB and his terrified and traumisted wife HOME AND SAFE, to continue what little is left of their lives. Until people walk away and leave this story alone, they never will.

That's the tradegy here.
Leave the story a

Genuine question, would those who think the flowers are OK feel the same if the relatives of the Manchester Bomber did the same in the foyer of the Manchester Arena??

If not, why not?

If so, why so?

Unfortunately it was a traveller who broke into his home and he was killed, travellers never forget, he he took one of their own, so they would want revenge, due to that, Mr O has to be protected for the rest of his days and will be looking over his shoulder. The tributes, if I were the fence owner, I would take them down, I would not want them there. I don't know, I am afraid that travellers would flock to the area for years to come to remember one of their own, and these tributes will just keep coming.

What if this criminal had been a rapist and his female victim killed him in self defence?

Would you be ok with the rapists family leaving flowers at the scene?
Would there be any sympathy for the rapist?

I asked about the same scenario on one of the previous threads Echo2 when posters were saying that Mr OB should be charged with the killing but I never got an answer.

I don’t care where he came from. But he presumably has a home does he not? In which case his family are welcome to put up their floral tributes there. Doing it outside the victim’s house (and let’s not forget here that the man was killed in the name of self defence so he was not an innocent victim) is clearly designed to intimidate the locals.

Let’s also bear in mind here that this is not the area where he died. After burgling the house, intimidating a pentioner and being stabbed in self defence, he and his accomplice ran off to a car where they escaped. When he collapsed the accomplice threw him out and left him for dead while he himself made his escape. HAd he not run off in the first place chances are he may not even have died.

And while there of course needs to be an investigation after someone is killed in the name of self defence, this has happened and the victim has no case to answer. Now it needs to be let go. And while a family may be grieving the loss (but clearly he wasn’t a model husband and father if burglary was his living) they do not have the right to grieve in whichever manner they see fit and without regard for anyone else. Part of accepting that loss needs to also be the acceptance of the fact that had he not been attempting to harm another human being he wouldn’t have met the fate he did. He was the one armed with a screwdriver remember, if he’d stabbed the pensioner to death I sincerely doubt his family would have been round to pay their respects.

But let’s all assume that burglars are all from fine upstanding members of society who knew nothing unttil such times as their family member is caught robbing or dies in pursuit of intimidating pensioners.

That doesn’t surprise me stitchglitched

I think I saw that stitched, unbelievable.

Seeing my poor writing skills got me off on wrong footing.
Can I say the real and only tradegy in this story is a week later a totally innocent woman suffer from a horrible disease, who needs a stable home life, can't return home
If everyone from the vigilantes, media and social media, now walked away and left Vincent to be buried and flowers to dye.
Mr OB and his poor terrified wife could return.
Is nothing to do with anyone else. Leave them alone. It can then dye down.
Keeep playing in the media and it will never dye down.
HTH

I only feel sorry for the poor man and his wife and Vincent's DC. The other Vincent's can grieve all they like in private. But I couldn't care less about them. I hope Billy Jeeves goes to Jail and anyone else who was involved, including family members who knew about it.

If I lived near this shrine I’d go and help dismantle it.
Ghastly.

He was a man who broke into someone’s home armed and with an accomplice. His family might be grieving but I for one am not.