SAHM who are to busy too work??

[donners312]

I honestly don't have a problem with SAHM BUT I admit I am fed up of SAHM who claim they are fed up with their car/where they go on holiday/their house/kitchen etc BUT do not work.

If your DH is so shit at providing why don't you get a job and pay for it yourself?

I keep hearing it is because you are too busy to get a job?

or maybe i just need new friends?

I am NOT having a go at SAHM if you and your DH are both happy then `I am honesty happy for your family but i do feel there are some women who would rather not work and accept no responsibility for family finances whilst complaining about how shit their (lovely) life is?

Let's not confuse 'societal recognition', whatever that is, with human worth.

Measuring someone’s value by how much they financially contribute to society is totally wrong in my opinion.

Agree. Imagine if everyone doing unpaid work stopped tomorrow. I think ‘society would notice. You’d never have this vitriol directed to someone who was caring for elderly relatives full time.

Do you imagine that all SAHPs might unionise and strike? I'm not being funny, I just don't understand how this might happen. Presumably many of them are happy being at home with their children and it wouldn't occur to them to 'stop work'.

They might also worry that their household income would be affected, i.e. the bread winner might have to skip work.

I don't really buy this idea that customers/work colleagues/bosses etc owe something ('societal recognition', I still don't know what that is exactly) to the SAHP because they enable the WOHM to work. They don't; they enable the WOHP to have and raise a family while they work (and of course, most mothers in the UK work anyway). Again, it's the family that's getting the benefit.

Which is well and good and fine and dandy. But again, it's the family who should be giving the 'value' and 'recognition' because it's the family who benefits from it.

No I don't think anybody is arguing customers or employers should be giving any special recognition to SAHMs. Why would they? It doesn't make sense. Of course I don't enable anyone else to work, but I do enable my DH to have the flexibility and headspace to do what he does. No more than that though.

That said, I do think we've lost something a little in British culture when it comes to the importance of the family and women's role within that. What I mean is that in other cultures, such as my DH's and to some extent, my own, the role of the mother is respected as unique and something to be revered in a way that doesn't really exist here anymore. Of course, it's great that women have far greater choices in modern society, but with that has come a sense that "just being a mum" is not enough anymore, it's something that has to be excused or justified. You are seen as interchangeable with child-care workers or nannies. "Just get childcare" is a phrase often repeated on MN. Whether this is progressive or regressive is a matter of opinion. People live according to their own value systems and when it comes to your own children, it's irrelevant what anyone else thinks.

1ndig0

And there I agree with you. I don't feel there is anything whatsoever wrong with having to or preferring to work rather than be at home with children, but I don't think many people would honestly agree with the view that being at home with a parent is interchangeable with being in a nursery or other childcare setting. This isn't to bash working parents at all - we do what we have to do - but to recognise that SAHP are doing what they perceive to be better for their kids. That's not something I am about to knock either.

but to recognise that SAHP are doing what they perceive to be better for their kids.

Pretty much all of us do what we perceive to be better for our kids. For a lot of women, that means working because providing food, shelter and clothing is, apparently, a pretty key part of successful parenting. (Who'd have thunk!) And for a lot of women, it's because being a SAHM would drive them utterly mad and they would not be the best parents they could be. I've got absolutely no doubt that those parents who choose to SAH are doing what they perceive to be best for their kids for their own reasons too and that is absolutely grand. They are not lazy, or scroungers, or any of the other horrid accusations that get lobbed in their direction. What rubbish.

I just don't understand what 'societal recognition' is supposed to come from it, that's all. I don't even really understand what 'societal recognition' is. Money? Gratitude from people for the things you do for them?

And when I saw an earlier poster (can't remember who, can't be bothered to look up the name, I'm on my phone) suggest that people affected by her husband's work should 'recognise' her contribution in enabling him to do it, I had to say that I disagree. She's not enabling him to work, he can work by himself. She's enabling him to have a family with next to no impact on his career. That's great, but again, it's him and his family who should be giving her gratitude and recognition, not his boss fgs.

I also disagree with the previous poster who said the difficulty SAHPs have in returning to the workplace is a sign of society not valuing them. It's a sign of the value of recent and up to date work experience for employers, that's all. If you leave the workplace for any reason for five years (or whatever), that's a disadvantage you will just have to work with.

My local library runs 'back to work' courses to help people build their CVs, skills and confidence to return to work after a break for any reason. I think it's a great idea.

PoorYorick

That's what I am saying: almost everyone is doing what they think is best for their family. I have nothing to add to that because I think, given that, all decisions seem pretty reasonable to me.

I don't really buy this idea that customers/work colleagues/bosses etc owe something ('societal recognition', I still don't know what that is exactly) to the SAHP because they enable the WOHM to work. They don't; they enable the WOHP to have and raise a family while they work (and of course, most mothers in the UK work anyway). Again, it's the family that's getting the benefit.
But if the wohp recognised and acknowledged this fact, that would be a large proportion of society, wouldn't it? So sahp would, I assume, feel valued by society? Although I'm not sure how this would be evident really, but as a pp said, maybe not frequently hearing about how sahp are lazy and just out for themselves would be a step in the right direction. (obviously we also shouldn't be accepting comments about wohm being selfish or whatever either - but they do still have recognition for being in the workplace... )

But if the wohp recognised and acknowledged this fact, that would be a large proportion of society, wouldn't it? So sahp would, I assume, feel valued by society?

Not sure I see it that way. They'd be recognised and valued by their partners, which is exactly as it should be. I wouldn't personally see that as society, but if others do, great. I still don't really know what societal recognition means in this context anyway.

I absolutely agree with not denigrating parents (mothers) who work or stay home or whatever, for sure.

They'd be recognised and valued by their partners, which is exactly as it should be

It should be, shouldn't it. But I'm not sure it is, that much. As society in general tends to look down on sahp (sahm in particular) because they don't do it all, plus work as well. So there's a wider, ingrained, accepted stereotype. Some of these partners might appreciate it, but in my opinion, there are so many ppl banging on about how they can juggle everything, and the wohp often doesn't see the whole story esp if they work away a lot, so they just take it for granted, instead of appreciating how much easier their sahp makes life for them.
Yes, some couples can juggle everything, but if you're one of those ppl whose partner has zero flexibility in their job and can't help out at all, some jobs just can't be 'juggled' by yourself. And I think some ppl fail to take these differences into account.
I've had various permutations of no dc/DC, ft/pt, dh away/home, and I can without a doubt say that it's easier to work a full on, highly responsible/stressful job when you have someone else doing everything else at home. And in my experience, those wohp (from my pool of friends and family) don't appreciate this. And if they don't, why/how would the greater 'society'? But they often don't because of the greater perceived easy/lazy role of sahp. So it's a catch 22.

I was also commenting broadly on the thread there, not just to your post yorick. I'm not sure what societal recognition is either, as used by others. To me I think it would be recognition by everyone (ie society as a whole) that sahp do contribute value to family but also in a wider sense, as a lot of volunteering simply wouldn't happen A lot of employers would have to make more concessions if everyone's career was equally important and therefore everyone had 50/50 responsibility for their own dc/family responsibility etc. Either that or not employ more experienced staff.