Who was unreasonable in this cafe?

[PartyRingss]

I was having a coffee earlier in a busy high street cafe and witnessed a couple of women having an argument.

It was very busy in there today and I looked up when I heard raised voices. Woman 1 was sat down at a table for 4 on her own with no food or drink. Woman 2 was stood there holding a tray with food and drink on with her two smallish children (I'd say around 4/5/6 years old.)

She had obviously asked woman 1 if she could have the table as she didn't have her food/drink but was obviously told no. That's when woman 2 started raising her voice saying she shouldn't be saving tables when the cafe is so busy whilst people with their food then have nowhere to sit.

Woman 1 argued loudly "well you should have made sure you had somewhere to sit before getting your food " to which the other woman shouted "well I can't leave my kids at a table and get food!" Woman one then told her that her dh would be here in a minute and at that moment another couple offered woman 2 the other half of their table of 4 so she sat with them and pulled up a chair to sit on the end and she made comments about "selfish people."

Meanwhile woman 1 sat defiantly for 10 minutes looking out the window until her husband had been served at the counter and came with their drinks and sandwiches. When he arrived at their table a few other tables were becoming free.

Now I know it is sense sometimes to make sure you have somewhere to sit when at a cafe where you have to take a tray and help yourself to sandwiches etc and get your hot drinks and food orders at the counter. But surely when it's busy and there are several people in front of your partner at the counter then it becomes a bit selfish, especially if you sit watching people walk around with no where to sit to eat their food. Not everyone can leave someone to reserve a table such as children for instance.

Surely by the time someone has been served other tables become free like in this case. It was so awkward watching this woman be so defiant at giving up the table for someone who had food already purchased with 2 kids in tow and rather her sit crammed up with a couple of people she didn't know, especially when her husband was quite far off being served. If it's not that busy then I don't really see an issue but it was busy and the staff were rushed off their feet.

I think woman 1 was massively unreasonable!

Who in their right mind visits a cafe with 2 small children that must be so full to the brim to have minimum of 15 minute queues which must have spilled out onto the path if they take that bloody long.

Unless op is exaggerating the queue length of course because a 15 minute queue in an m&s cafe would have wound round half the store. And where did all these hundreds of other customers sit that were supposedly in front of the woman's husband?

Whenever it was necessary to eat in a cafe when mine were small, If it was that rammed I simply wouldn't eat there. Or I'd sit the kids down first if there was literally no other cafe choice.

You sound nasty op. As this thread has gone on and you have gained some validation, you have become really quite horrible. Your wording has become more spiteful. Grow up a bit, this wasn’t even your issue to be so invested in. I get seeing things and taking note without realising, but this kind of obsession and anger seems unhealthy. For what it’s worth, I wouldn’t get my food until I have sat down. When I have cued before getting a seat I’ve been left stranded with kids and food and end up eating outside Tesco or somewhere on single seats. No one knows how long the que will take, we can only guess. Woman twos attitude was awful. You also mentioned that you didn’t like when a man who had a drink, went and grabbed the seat you were going for whilst pregnant? You were going to save a seat while your partner was in the que?

Get a table, then order. It's the only common sense way of doing things.

I don't understand sharing tables either. If I'm about for lunch with a friend, I'm going to be sitting at a table with them, not having some randoms sitting in the other chairs listening to our conversation while they chew with their mouths open. In a busy 'grab, shove it in and go' food court, maybe, but definitely not in a restaurant or café. Yuck.

the one who did not have food she is selfish
I HATE when people do this with parking spaces WHY are you sitting in your car doing nothing when it is busy and people who need to park there needs the space it's irratting

if she was waiting or getting food then she isn't selfish but if she was sitting there doing nothing she is

This happened to me in M&S once. I was 'Woman 2' in this case. I went into M&S cafe with my 3.5yo and newborn who was BF. The cafe was really quite busy with only a few tables available, and there was a couple of people in front of me, so I'm scanning the space for a table, looking to see who was finishing up or was making moves to leave.

While I'm in the queue, about 5 couples joined the queue behind me. Next thing I see is that one person from each of these parties is away bagging tables for them and their friends. So I get my order served, I've got a tired toddler, a hungry newborn and nowhere to sit. I was fuming.

I asked to speak to the manager of the cafe and told her what was happening. She explained there's a formula used in restaurants and cafes that can pretty much guarantee tables being available (something along the lines of average length of time people spend there x the number of tables) but this only works if selfish entitled gits (my words, not hers) don't nab the tables before they are served. Once people start doing that, the system breaks.

Anyway, she politely but firmly asked someone who's mate was still in the queue to give me the table they'd sat at, and explained the table availability formula to her.

I got my table, the DCs got fed, and when previous occupant of the table and her friend got served at the counter, other customers had finished up and left and there were enough tables to accommodate everyone, just as the manager predicted.

Taking a table before you get served is just rude and selfish, and there's no need for it. The customer in front of you on their own doesn't have someone to grab a table for them do they? They were in the queue before you, and so they require the table before you do.

This would explain why it takes them twice as long to make the food when you order - purposely make the queue slow down so the tables become free

It's only 'selfish' because you didn't get what you wanted and it's not their fault your toddler and baby were hungry!

If you had everybody stand in the queue for food the queue would look even longer and slow service down even more.

Sometimes we only grab a drink and no food so we by pass the food orders who are 'waiting' and get served quicker - should we not be allowed a table?

If we order food when it's busy we are often given a table number and they bring it out while we drink our drinks at a table - how would this work?

I remember when I was really young, my mother left me at a cafe to save a table (of four - there were three of us (me, DM and DGM). Three people who hadn’t been served came and sat down with me. Clearly trying to intimidate a small child into leaving the table.

I’m a bit on the fence with this one OP. I don’t think woman 2 WBU to ask to share. I also don’t think woman 1 WBU to

*to save a seat whilst her DH was queuing.

Woman 2 was in the wrong. It's ridiculous to expect someone to give up their table when they are ordering their food.

Woman 2 only got what she wanted by kicking off, but my guess is the cafe itself has no issue with customers saving tables as it is the social norm. To be honest I’m not sure why any single mum with 2/3 kids would go to a cafe with a 15 minute queue in the first place; clearly more money than sense!

I am not going to order food in a cafe unless I have a table.

And MN is a deeply weird place when it comes to the number of people who say they would just sit down at the 'spare seats' at the table someone else had already claimed, against the objections of the occupant. I have literally never seen someone do this and I think it is incredibly rude, entitled behaviour. Get your own table.

"WHY are you sitting in your car doing nothing when it is busy and people who need to park there needs the space it's irratting"

Waiting for others in the party to return to the car.
Eating because it is too busy for ds inside but we need to go back in to use the toilet or change ds so can't drive somewhere else.
I expect most people are there for a good reason.

If you had everybody stand in the queue for food the queue would look even longer and slow service down even more.

It won’t slow anything down, there are the same number of orders. It simply makes it more likely that a table will be free when you get to the front of the queue.

People shouldn’t take tables until they need to sit at them with their order (disability excepted).
People shouldn’t under occupy tables unless they are prepared to share.
People shouldn’t spread out their stuff over a bigger table when the cafe is busy.

incredibly rude, entitled behaviour

No more rude and entitled than hogging a table before you’ve ordered.

Of course you get your table before getting your food. If not, you'll end up in exactly this situation! A cafe isn't likely to refund as you can't find anywhere to sit so you need to sit first.

SoupDragon

It is a great deal more rude and entitled than that, in my opinion. It's normal and practical to go into a cafe and find somewhere to sit. It's weird to force your company and that of your children on a person who has said they don't want it.

It's normal and practical to go into a cafe and find somewhere to sit. It's weird to force your company and that of your children on a person who has said they don't want it.

It’s normal to need a table when you have your food. It is rude and entitled to hog a table before you have that food. If people didn’t do this, tables would become free when people get the point of actually needing one by the natural movement of customers.

I always tAke the kids to sit down while DH gets the food. The woman wasn’t doing anything wrong. Woman 2 was just rude although it does sound like maybe she’s been pushed to her limit maybe with the kids.

SoupDragon

Well, we disagree.

Basically, you’re saying that people who don’t have someone to hog a table for them are less deserving/in need of a table than someone with a hogger.

SoupDragon

Nothing to do with 'less deserving'. It's just tough apples. When I am on my own I have to wait for a table. When I am with someone else it is sensible to get a table, then order.

WHY are you sitting in your car doing nothing when it is busy and people who need to park there needs the space it's irratting

Because my husband is doing the shopping and it's my only chance to get out of the house as I can't go anywhere alone and he works full time. I didn't fancy going in to the shop as my pain levels are too bad or my wheelchair is at home.

Because I've been shopping and I've had to come back to the car for a rest as I have disabilities and need to do things in stages.

Because I'm waiting for DH and DS to use the loo/pay for something and I've come back sooner so I can sit down /load my wheelchair into the car.

If you're irritated by that, it's perhaps for the best that you don't go anywhere or do anything like you're suggesting I should, as lots of things must really get on your nerves.

One of us will always "reserve" a table.

Otherwise, if everybody stands in the queue it becomes 3 times as long......

Also, if I walk in somewhere on my own, there's a queue and there are no free seats I walk out & go elsewhere!! I wouldn't shoehorn myself into any old spare seat on someone else's table.