Who was unreasonable in this cafe?

[PartyRingss]

I was having a coffee earlier in a busy high street cafe and witnessed a couple of women having an argument.

It was very busy in there today and I looked up when I heard raised voices. Woman 1 was sat down at a table for 4 on her own with no food or drink. Woman 2 was stood there holding a tray with food and drink on with her two smallish children (I'd say around 4/5/6 years old.)

She had obviously asked woman 1 if she could have the table as she didn't have her food/drink but was obviously told no. That's when woman 2 started raising her voice saying she shouldn't be saving tables when the cafe is so busy whilst people with their food then have nowhere to sit.

Woman 1 argued loudly "well you should have made sure you had somewhere to sit before getting your food " to which the other woman shouted "well I can't leave my kids at a table and get food!" Woman one then told her that her dh would be here in a minute and at that moment another couple offered woman 2 the other half of their table of 4 so she sat with them and pulled up a chair to sit on the end and she made comments about "selfish people."

Meanwhile woman 1 sat defiantly for 10 minutes looking out the window until her husband had been served at the counter and came with their drinks and sandwiches. When he arrived at their table a few other tables were becoming free.

Now I know it is sense sometimes to make sure you have somewhere to sit when at a cafe where you have to take a tray and help yourself to sandwiches etc and get your hot drinks and food orders at the counter. But surely when it's busy and there are several people in front of your partner at the counter then it becomes a bit selfish, especially if you sit watching people walk around with no where to sit to eat their food. Not everyone can leave someone to reserve a table such as children for instance.

Surely by the time someone has been served other tables become free like in this case. It was so awkward watching this woman be so defiant at giving up the table for someone who had food already purchased with 2 kids in tow and rather her sit crammed up with a couple of people she didn't know, especially when her husband was quite far off being served. If it's not that busy then I don't really see an issue but it was busy and the staff were rushed off their feet.

I think woman 1 was massively unreasonable!

Woman 2 was unreasonable.

Sounds like her children were school age, not babies, so perfectly capable of standing with Mum until a table was free.

M&S cafe isn't worth queuing for IMO. I would have gone somewhere else if it was that busy.

If I'd been struggling with two young kids and a tray I might have just sat down and taken over the table. Said something along the lines of 'I'm sure there'll be more tables free by the time your husband gets here, or I'll pull up an extra chair and we can all share this one' with a no nonsense tone. Knowing my overly friendly chatty toddler would soon drive her away!

It's not my first choice but my mother likes it.,

M&S cafe can't even do a bacon sandwich with no butter. It's all a bit meh.

I don't mind their sandwiches where or is prawn, egg mayo, cheese and cream cheese/salmon but not fussed about anything else. When my dc were small they loved the Percy pig biscuits they do but my dd (11) told me recently she doesn't like Percy pig anymore 😱

Imo, barring special needs, people with food trump those without for a table.

I've asked people to make room at tables during a rush at work.

All those saying you’d reserve / make sure you had a table first, what do you do if you’re out alone? What should people do if they’re getting lunch alone and there’s no one to ‘plonk’ at the table whilst you get in the queue?!

I'm with Woman 2 (and evidently in the minority).
How very un-British all this table-hogging and 'tough luck' to people who come in with children too small to leave alone is. So much for the much-vaunted politeness.

Anyway, surely if you take up a table too large for you/your group in a busy place, ir comes with the territory that you may have to share it? If I'd been Woman 2 I'd just have sa down with my children.

Woman 1 was wrong. I've been in a cafe with my baby before (so can't be left at the table to hold it!) and struggled to find a table while multiple tables were occupied by a single person waiting for their husband with their food. So no table for person with food, empty tables occupied by people without food. By the time the husbands arrived with the food, other tables had become available.

Single if I was out alone I would avoid the really busy cafe and look for somewhere else. If that wasn't possible I would either take whatever I ordered to go and find a nice bench or politely ask someone sat at table with empty chairs "Is this seat free?"

If they then said no, I would have asked at another table with a spare seat.

SinglePringle - If your alone you 1. don't eat at a place that looks like there might be not table left for you or 2. ask to join another table. I have shared one of those small round tables for 2 with people I don't know in crowded cafe's. In general people are very nice to share.

AnElderlyLadyOfMediumHeight - I think everyone agrees that the woman should at least have shared the table in a busy cafe. What people disagree on is if she should have sat down whilst her husband went and got drinks.

Single I would put my coat with empty pockets on the table.
Imagine ordering something like mince and dumplings or lasagne in a cafe and not getting a table?
You’d look ridiculous eating it as take out on the street and it could be cold by the time you waited for a table.....
I’ve never seen anyone order food then stand and wait for a table or start ranting at people who have enough sense to plan ahead and get a table to vacate their seats.

This is a perennial thread on here and there's no right or wrong answer, you could probably spend a whole day reading all the old threads and not be any further forward

I wouldn't bother even to do that to be honest if was on my own. When I am on my own I tend to either buy a take out sandwich or go somewhere where there are lots of tables free. I don't think I could handle the anxiety of waiting in line watching others reserve empty seats then queue.

To be honest, I’d just sit at a table if necessary. I’m single (see name!) and often have lunch alone. No way am I avoiding places just because I’m on my own.

Single I would put my coat with empty pockets on the table.

I've done that. Went up to order my food, came back and found that some people had just moved my coat aside and sat down. It was a place where you have to give your table number when ordering, so I couldn't just go and find another table. And why should I?

Dr in that instance I would have just sat down and asked if they were ignoring my coat, they are more than welcome to share my table (I genuinely don’t mind sharing if people are polite and ask). But because the cheeky fuckers just assumed it was ok I would eat my food as noisily as humanly possible

It was only a small table for two, so there wasn't room for three of us, and I wasn't going to go hunting for a spare chair when they'd taken mine. They did grudgingly move when I pointed out that I was there first, but it shows that just leaving a coat isn't always the easy solution.

We go on aot of cruises. One of the dining g venues us a big buffet area with lots of four seater two seater and large round tables for six or more people.
If we visit the buffet we get a table and take it turns to get food.
There is an eternal argument with some passengers that you should get your food and then find a table. Some think it's selfish to do this. I think its sensible. The alternative is to wander around with a tray full of food getting cold and glaring at people who gave the common sense to do things properly

I think it’s sensible to find a table first. I think the woman was just upset she clearly did not have the common sense of the first woman to think ahead.

There is irony because people who are so bothered about having a seat that they need to blag ones ahead of everyone else should really just go to a waiter service cafe

No irony. If I couldn't find a seat first, I wouldn't eat there.

No idea where all these people go that tables magically appear quickly once they have paid for their food. In my experience people take ages.

Woman 2 is wrong.
There is nothing wrong with minding a table in a busy cafe. There is no way of knowing if there will be a lull in the busy period so she and her husband were merely being sensible.

If the kids are the age you describe, I fail to see why Woman 2 couldn't have parked them at a free table and kept a eye on them from the queue.I did that regularly when mine were that age as long as I could see them.

Masterbuilders I totally agree.

I’m a stickler for manners and kindness but I think it’s hugely lacking in common sense to not find a table first. It’s not at all rude or selfish, it’s completely practical. If there is no table when I enter, I’d just go somewhere else. The “there will be a table available once you’ve finished queuing” argument is rarely true. At least not where I live - people regularly nurse the same cappuccino cup for 2 hours without making a move! Now THAT is rude/selfish/table hogging...seeing other people struggle to find tables when it is quite clear that you finished your drinks a long time ago.

When I’m alone I leave a jacket/book on the table. Only once have I been slagged off. There was no one in the queue and only one table available, I plonked some stuff down on a nearby table for two (my friend and her baby were joining me), headed straight to the till and as I was waiting for my drink to be made the girl behind me (only other person in the queue) started complaining to her mother about how cheeky and “not on” it was to reserve a table. My friend, who has recently had a stroke which has affected her mobility and balance, arrived with the buggy and I pointed to the table so she could get settled with the baby, whilst the girl behind me continued to moan loudly about how you should get served first then look for a table.

The thing is, it wouldn’t have made a difference to her. There was just that table left when I arrived and I was the only person in the queue until she arrived so even if I’d done things her way I still would have got that table anyway!

When we go to a cafe DH puts me, DC, pram and shopping at a table and I breastfeed while he joins the queue. Hopefully by the time my order arrives I've finished feeding. It seems silly to all stand in the queue and make it longer, with grumpy kids and heavy bags, and risk not getting a table when we get served. If you can't get a table you don't join the queue!