Who was unreasonable in this cafe?

[PartyRingss]

I was having a coffee earlier in a busy high street cafe and witnessed a couple of women having an argument.

It was very busy in there today and I looked up when I heard raised voices. Woman 1 was sat down at a table for 4 on her own with no food or drink. Woman 2 was stood there holding a tray with food and drink on with her two smallish children (I'd say around 4/5/6 years old.)

She had obviously asked woman 1 if she could have the table as she didn't have her food/drink but was obviously told no. That's when woman 2 started raising her voice saying she shouldn't be saving tables when the cafe is so busy whilst people with their food then have nowhere to sit.

Woman 1 argued loudly "well you should have made sure you had somewhere to sit before getting your food " to which the other woman shouted "well I can't leave my kids at a table and get food!" Woman one then told her that her dh would be here in a minute and at that moment another couple offered woman 2 the other half of their table of 4 so she sat with them and pulled up a chair to sit on the end and she made comments about "selfish people."

Meanwhile woman 1 sat defiantly for 10 minutes looking out the window until her husband had been served at the counter and came with their drinks and sandwiches. When he arrived at their table a few other tables were becoming free.

Now I know it is sense sometimes to make sure you have somewhere to sit when at a cafe where you have to take a tray and help yourself to sandwiches etc and get your hot drinks and food orders at the counter. But surely when it's busy and there are several people in front of your partner at the counter then it becomes a bit selfish, especially if you sit watching people walk around with no where to sit to eat their food. Not everyone can leave someone to reserve a table such as children for instance.

Surely by the time someone has been served other tables become free like in this case. It was so awkward watching this woman be so defiant at giving up the table for someone who had food already purchased with 2 kids in tow and rather her sit crammed up with a couple of people she didn't know, especially when her husband was quite far off being served. If it's not that busy then I don't really see an issue but it was busy and the staff were rushed off their feet.

I think woman 1 was massively unreasonable!

It's weird to force your company and that of your children on a person who has said they don't want it.

In that situation it's best to sit there and make inappropriate comments regarding the news on your phone. Once little Timothy has asked "What's a cockwomble? What's a cheeky fucker?" a few times I'm sure they'll move on.

A pointless argument- no one is going to change their behaviour. I get a table first. When I had a 3yr old and a baby I sat them at a table as long as I could see them from the queue. I certainly couldn't cope with a pram, a toddler and a tray of food! If I am on my own and can't do this I go elsewhere if busy or ask to join another loan person.

Imagine ordering something like mince and dumplings or lasagne in a cafe and not getting a table?
You’d look ridiculous eating it as take out on the street and it could be cold by the time you waited for a table.....

And all so easily solved if people who don't have food don't hog tables.

It's common sense really. People hogging tables cause the problem of there not being enough tables in the first place. Just join the queue like everyone else and stop being so selfish.

A pub is different. There's no queue for a start.

IIIustriouslyIllogical

Nice

The thing is, when I am sitting for in a cafe on my own, it is literally the only time I get to be on my own. Sometimes it's been weeks. I really need that time for my mental health. I would be furious and stressed out if some cheeky, horrible woman and her children decided to take over my table just because I wasn't with other people. I would go out of my to make them feel uncomfortable. Nothing illegal about staring at people, is there?

When I am on my own I have to wait for a table. When I am with someone else it is sensible to get a table, then order.

Except if everyone just took tables in turn, the availability of tables would fit better with the need for those tables. People hogging them from the back of the queue messes this up. They are the problem, not the solution.

Some places are set up differently whereby they ask you to find a table first.

Taking a table before you get served is just rude and selfish, and there's no need for it.

There is a need for it. I have no idea what this 'formula' is that the café manage is talking about, but I've never seen it work in a busy café. Plenty of times people sit and chat over or drink for ages while people mill around looking for a table. No way am I going to stand there letting my food and drink go cold waiting for a free table.

I go to the M&S cafe a lot. It gets very busy at lunch time so I make sure to get there early. I favour it because the staff know me, it’s small enough that I can put the kids at a table and still see them while at the till, and you can move tables together to make a 4 without any fuss. (And the iced buns of course )

If I were woman 2, I’d get in a better routine for cafe trips but I agree that woman 1 was a bit of an arsehole. As one person, she could have given her the table and found another more easily that a group with children and food.

I had a lady specifically wait for the seat my son was sitting in.
“I usually sit in that chair”
Ok lovely, we’ll be gone soon.
“Oh no rush”
Queue her sitting closely next to us, eyeballing the seat and making comments on how much DS had eaten. “No rush” clearly means get the fuck out of my seat, little boy!!!!

SoupDragon

That's fine. If they ask me to do that, I'll do it. If they don't, I won't.

Otherwise, if everybody stands in the queue it becomes 3 times as long......

The queue for food doesn't take any longer because it's still the same amount of food.
But, the queue for tables does become longer. An imbalance is created and at exactly the point where you don't want the imbalance, with people wandering around carrying trays, food getting cold etc.

Meanwhile woman 1 sat defiantly for 10 minutes looking out the window until her husband had been served at the counter and came with their drinks and sandwiches. When he arrived at their table a few other tables were becoming free.

Totally not the point of your thread, but I’m interested to know where the people served before him but after woman 2 sat if the tables were only becoming free at this point?

Was it a niace cafe?

"Just join the queue like everyone else and stop being so selfish."

Ds can't cope with queueing and his sn buggy will take up lots of room. We don't go at busy times but I don't stand in any queue if there is another option. It is far better for everyone if he is settled into a suitable seat. Table service also creates problems because it is harder to judge how long things will take and so distressed behaviour is more likely.

I always reserve a table when the dc are with me. I'd much rather leave them sitting at the table for a few mins than wrestle with herding them both in and out of a queue, juggling a tray and hot drinks etc. That said, if I was alone and saw someone struggling with children and a tray etc I'd offer to move because I know what that feels like. I think sitting woman was selfish and rude. Woman with dc should perhaps be more selfish in future though.

I would definitely reserve a table first, no point buying food if you then can’t sit down. If it was a small enough place that I could easily see the DCs I would leave them sitting there and if not I would leave the buggy or something that would help reserve the table. I thought this was the norm! So much hassle to queue up with children, coats, a buggy etc etc and then try to carry a tray to a table. That said if there was nowhere else to sit and I only needed two chairs at the table I would definitely let the lady carrying the tray sit down with us. Ok it would change the dynamic of the lunch we had planned but it’s only fair to let people share if there are no other seats.

I saw someone saving seats in McDonalds at a train station last week!

It was quite late and busy before last trains leaving, so very fast turnover of queues and people eating, yet this woman made her 4 kids spread out over an area easily for 6 or possibly 8 people.

I was standing by the side while OH queued and counted a good few people eat and leave before she even returned with the food.

I hate it when people walk into a café and even though there can be a queue of people waiting to be served one of them quickly grabs a table. What about all the people in the queue?

I like to go shopping on my own and I like to have a coffee while out. Most of the time though I don't because there is every chance I won't get a table because of all the selfish people.

Even when I am with DH we usually queue together

I think woman 1 was rude and selfish

Just join the queue like everyone else and stop being so selfish

No

HTH

I Also think where possible it is much safer to get children safely sat down at a table than have them standing in a queue full of people with hot food and drink.

I'd like to ask all the selfish posters what a person on their own is meant to do?

Despite my local town having loads of cafes/coffee shops it is quite common for them to all be packed especially between about 12 and 2. I often give up on getting a coffee and/or lunch because everywhere is so crowded I know there is every chance there won't be a free table when I get my food/drink.

Am I just meant to eat early (11am)? or late when there is a good chance almost all of the sandwiches will be gone?

Whatever happened to manners?

If it’s a busy place we sort out a table (for two if we can) first and then one of us goes to queue, or we leave our coats there. We’ve never had anyone just take the table. I think it is sensible and practical not selfish. I don’t think anyone else is selfish for doing the same.

My late MIL used to get very exercised about this issue - she thought it was selfish to get a table first.

I'd like to ask all the selfish posters what a person on their own is meant to do?

I do agree it’s quite selfish to ‘hold’ a table ahead of time in a self serve cafe, but in our town we have a couple of cafes with a long ‘bar’ with bar stools which is ideal for single diners or individuals stopping for a solo coffee.

oh and we are happy to share if we have to sit at a bigger table. If I’m in town on my own I tend to get a coffee in John Lewis. Yes it is more expensive but never any trouble getting a table.

To all those who think it is ok to reserve a table (which it is, sometimes), can I ask about time limits?
Would you still think it was ok if the queue was around 25-30 minutes, as it was in IKEA on Monday,?
5 minute queue, fine. Half hour queue, surely no-one would think blocking a table would be fine for that long??

You find a table with an empty space and you say “excuse me is anyone sat there?”

Generally it’s much easier to find a seat for one person than it is a larger group.

I wouldn’t dream of standing in a queue for 25 minutes for food anyway, especially not somewhere like Ikea!

If it was going to take that long I would not bother full stop.