Who was unreasonable in this cafe?

[PartyRingss]

I was having a coffee earlier in a busy high street cafe and witnessed a couple of women having an argument.

It was very busy in there today and I looked up when I heard raised voices. Woman 1 was sat down at a table for 4 on her own with no food or drink. Woman 2 was stood there holding a tray with food and drink on with her two smallish children (I'd say around 4/5/6 years old.)

She had obviously asked woman 1 if she could have the table as she didn't have her food/drink but was obviously told no. That's when woman 2 started raising her voice saying she shouldn't be saving tables when the cafe is so busy whilst people with their food then have nowhere to sit.

Woman 1 argued loudly "well you should have made sure you had somewhere to sit before getting your food " to which the other woman shouted "well I can't leave my kids at a table and get food!" Woman one then told her that her dh would be here in a minute and at that moment another couple offered woman 2 the other half of their table of 4 so she sat with them and pulled up a chair to sit on the end and she made comments about "selfish people."

Meanwhile woman 1 sat defiantly for 10 minutes looking out the window until her husband had been served at the counter and came with their drinks and sandwiches. When he arrived at their table a few other tables were becoming free.

Now I know it is sense sometimes to make sure you have somewhere to sit when at a cafe where you have to take a tray and help yourself to sandwiches etc and get your hot drinks and food orders at the counter. But surely when it's busy and there are several people in front of your partner at the counter then it becomes a bit selfish, especially if you sit watching people walk around with no where to sit to eat their food. Not everyone can leave someone to reserve a table such as children for instance.

Surely by the time someone has been served other tables become free like in this case. It was so awkward watching this woman be so defiant at giving up the table for someone who had food already purchased with 2 kids in tow and rather her sit crammed up with a couple of people she didn't know, especially when her husband was quite far off being served. If it's not that busy then I don't really see an issue but it was busy and the staff were rushed off their feet.

I think woman 1 was massively unreasonable!

I have been woman 1 in the past (not to the point where it's busy enough not for others to get a table) but I still felt embarrassed with the selfish feeling I then had with my empty table just waiting to be bought food.

I've also been the one queuing for food as a couple zoom past the food order point and grab the last free table.

Luckily at which point I cancel my order and leave as I can't hang around waiting for a table with a 10 moth baby.

Places like this should set clear rules like many restaurants already do that you either get a table number first or not.

The table number is a brill idea! We have a local lounge bar in town who does this so you go in, find a table then order at the bar with your table number. Everyone knows where they stand then.

Places like M&S cafe seem to attract a certain breed of people..

Woman 1 is the c.f..
If I was woman 2 I would just have sat at the table with my 2 dc thus occupying the three empty seats.

Why is this cafe any different to going into a pub for example? You wouldn't go in and order food at a pub and say ithat haven't got a table, I'll stand here until my food is ready and then find one. You go in, get a table then go order and buy drinks. If you walk in and the only table is one where everyone is pouring over the menu you wouldn't ask them to move because you know what you want. The same logic applies.

And I still think woman 2 should have offered up the other half of the table regardless

I place the blame for the whole situation on those lingering on a coffee or loitering long after they've finished. They take up far more time than the queues/ save seaters.

What ferrier says with knobs on.

I'm wondering about the 'breed' in M&S cafes.

Usually pubs have the table number service so you go in, sit, look at the menu on the table then order at the bar with your table number and the food is normally more "meal" oriented.

A high street cafe is normally go in. Join the queue (its not always rammed,) pick up your sandwiches/salad/other light snack from the open cabinet, put it on your tray, order any hot drinks at the the till, pay, then go and sit down. Said sandwiches don't usually take very long to eat with the exception of you've ordered and are waiting for a hot toasted sandwich etc.

It's a completely different scenario and is designed to be a "quick stop off" rather than a "pub meal."

You were all being unreasonable to frequent a cafe with counter service where it takes 15 minutes plus to get served.

Urgent I've seen people in McDonald's when it's packed in school holidays sat there nursing a coffee with their newspaper on a booth for 4 people before. I've seen people ask said person if they can have spare seats to looked at like death. There really is a certain breed of people out there..

But Party if there's 6 of you in your party, and 1 is paying, you take up an awful lot of space in the queue and then people can't judge gow long it wil take to get served because there's 36 people waiting instead of 6.

And we can do drink, sandwich , cake and second drink, taking several hours. Because its a coffee shop not a race.

I would never go up and get food/drinks without already having a table. Just seems common sense or you end up standing around with a tray and nowhere to sit.

Or walking round with a tray of hot drinks with kids and shopping in tow whilst people try and get around you and you try not to spill it

It's not the majority spending hours with 6 people in their party in a high street cafe at peek time though is it. Not everyone in the queue has 6 people with them wanting to spend several hours at a table

If Woman 1s DH had already returned to the table when Woman 2 had realised there was no free seats what would she have done then? Stamped her feet and made a scene because she was stupid enough to buy food in a busy cafe without ensuring her children and herself had somewhere to consume their food. Woman 2 is an idiot.

In this case it was a woman sitting for longer than necessary at a table other people needed before they needed it. When they did need a table there were others available. They were just hogging a table and preventing others who needed it sooner using it. Neither party had 6 people and neither party were going to be there for several hours.

I don't think a pub and a cafe are that different. If you just get drinks at a pub you often still first go get a seat and the order at the bar to bring it back yourself. And at cafes people lounge for ages. I have days I stayed at cafes most of the day because i needed a place to work and other people have full meetings in cafes, or just relax and read a book for a few hours.

Yes it can seem a bit unfair for people by themselves who might not be able to reserve a seat but its also unfair that often single and couples will get a seat at a normal restaurant before a group simply because a table for 4 is not free yet. In a full cafe situation a single person can much easier find a table to sit with then a group of people, and 9 out of 10 times I have found people more then willing to share a table.

Woman two was in the Wrong.
What if woman 1s husband was right at the front of the queue or behind her? They both could have had food.
That sounds ridiculous behaviour from woman 1as generally the etiquette is you find somewhere to sit, even if that means putting a coat down on the chair, then you order.
If you can’t secure a table you take out or find a quieter venue.

I feel very strongly that in a cafe where you order at the counter, you don't go and sit down until you've ordered (unless you need to sit because you're not able to stand in the queue). Grabbing a table before you've ordered is queue jumping.

I think the reason I feel so strongly about this is I often go into cafes on my own to get some work done between client meetings (please note I buy food and drink and don't sit there for hours!) with no one to bagsy a table for me. It seems immensely unfair to be standing there with a full tray ready to start eating while half the tables are taken up by people who came in after me busy avoiding eye contact.

No way would I queue for food without knowing or not if I'd have a place to sit and eat.

Nabbing a table beforehand is standard. Don't like it, find somewhere with table service instead.

I wouldn't order food and drink anywhere with nowhere to sit down. If I'm by myself I'd probably just try and find somewhere quiet so I'd be sure of a table.
However I try to be kind and will vacate a bit earlier than planned if I've finished eating and drinking and I see someone hovering with a tray of stuff.

There's some irony here; those people who don't like going into cafes where they have to order at the counter without guaranteeing a seat first telling people who don't mind this concept to go to cafes where a seat is guaranteed (ie table service..)

Woman 2 who is blatantly you OPwas massively fucking rude and entitled. If she had asked the woman politely if they could share the table before shouting the odds she might have had a leg to stand on. If all these other people were desperately moving their stuff to let her share why hadn’t she turned to one of the other under occupied tables and asked if she could share with them?

The issue was clearly not that she needed a seat. It was that she wanted a table to herself and decided to get one by being a rude, shouty unpleasant bully.

If you want your ‘certain type’ of person there you go.

You need to be more organised. I have three children and have never had to resort to shouting or bullying to get a seat. Take a cheap jacket an old bag with cheapish items in and a book and wait until there is a free table and leave that and your eldest while you queue. Or go to a different cafe which offers table service.

Woman 1 should have complained about your aggressive behaviour and you should have been asked to leave.

telling people who don't mind this concept to go to cafes where a seat is guaranteed (ie table service..)

No irony there. Because you do actually ‘mind’ that concept when it doesn’t work for you and you can’t bully someone out of their seat by causing a scene. If you keep on doing this you are eventually (and quite deservedly) going to get kicked out of a cafe and banned.

Sorry to disappoint but I'm not woman 2 🤣 So trying to insult "me" is pointless because it's not "me" you're insulting 😬👍

There is irony because people who are so bothered about having a seat that they need to blag ones ahead of everyone else should really just go to a waiter service cafe 👍