78 pensioner arrested for fatally stabbing burglar in his own home

[SShaming]

2 burglars break into a 78 year old man’s home armed with screwdriver.

Forces owner into the kitchen whilst one of them goes upstairs.

A fight ensues, leaving pensioner with injuries to his arm and burglary is fatally stabbed. Perhaps with his own screwdriver although this is TBC.

Police arrest pensioner.

On what planet is this right?

Back to the original case someone has been killed and it does need to be properly investigated before decisions are made on taking it further. If these find he’s been acting in self defence and used reasonable force then I guess he won’t be prosecuted.

That was retracted pages and pages ago

But (a) it was not understood by TooGooToBeTrue, and (b) further ridiculous statements about what is "civilized" stick in my craw from someone who did not hesitate to stoop to smearing an elderly victim with a prima facie case of self-defence.

This is not something I want the police or public opinion to decide

Do you not believe the police and CPS are able to determine whether a crime has been committed and warrants a charge? What would be the point of a trial if all of the evidence pointed to clear cut self defence?

Then TooGood should rtft.

If it were to go to court with absolutely all the evidence pointing to clear-cut self-defence, then it would lead to a half-time dismissal without the jury getting any chance to deliberate at all.

One less truly wicked scumbag in the world now. My sympathy is entirely with the pensioner.

Then TooGood should rtft.

Quite

Whales
You are making yourself look a bit silly now.

He was arrested on suspicion of murder. He has now been bailed. If his actions are shown to be self-defence that will be the end of the matter from a legal perspective.

Nobody sympathises with the burglar. Everyone recognises that the homeowner was in a potentially terrifying position. However, due process still has to be followed. A person is dead and their death needs to be investigated properly.

I wish people would stop calling him “the pensioner”. Apart from anything else, it’s enormously disrespectful. For those of you who are getting all their information from this thread, his name is Richard Osborn-Brooks.

That's what juries are for.

No, juries are there to hear evidence of a crime. If the police find no evidence to support a crime what would be the point of a trial?

Oh no, we couldn't possibly refer to him as a pensioner - which indeed he is, fact fans, a 78-year old OAP - people might actually feel sorry for him, instead of for the real hero, the scumbag burglar!

BertrandRussell Wed 04-Apr-18 23:45:29
I wish people would stop calling him a "pensioner" as if that's the most important thing about him.

Bluelady Wed 04-Apr-18 23:48:02
Me too. I can only think it makes him sound more vulnerable and worthy of sympathy.

Oh stop it, Whale. You are being a teensy bit silly now!

You could call him the 'Embattled Old Gent'. That's a pretty good description, which isn't patronising, doesn't carry the frail victimhood of 'pensioner', but does carry a degree of courage and have-a-go heroism.

Whales
Just when I thought you couldn't get any more ridiculous you post this
"people might actually feel sorry for him, instead of for the real hero, the scumbag burglar!"

Let me explain this very very simply
The police have apply the same standards and rules every time someone is killed by another person. The alternative is that the police are effectively becoming an extra-judicial body where they are determining guilt or innocence based on subjective perception rather than proper investigation. We move towards totalitarianism or state sponsored vigilantes (Philippines for example) if we don't impartially apply the same rules to everyone "scumbag burglars" and "78-year old OAPs" alike.

I am sympathetic to the 78-year old OAP but that sympathy is trumped by the need for the rule of law to be maintained.

I am sympathetic to the 78-year old OAP but that sympathy is trumped by the need for the rule of law to be maintained.

You doggone, no-good, buglar-lovin’ apologist, you.

Oh stop it, Whale. You are being a teensy bit silly now!

Hey - you keep putting out your nonsense, and I'll keep setting it straight. Mostly using your own words and those of other posters inexplicably hostile to the elderly victim.

“I am sympathetic to the 78-year old OAP but that sympathy is trumped by the need for the rule of law to be maintained.”

Yup.

Butchy
Dammit - busted...

“Mostly using your own words and those of other posters inexplicably hostile to the elderly victim.”

Some new definition of “hostile” that has previously escaped me.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude

It's blindingly obvious that the reason why the uhh, "anti-homeowner" side wants to avoid describing him as a pensioner (preferring the term "killer", 'cos that's a perfectly neutral term, right?) is to deny him sympathy. It's in their own words:

BertrandRussell Wed 04-Apr-18 23:45:29
I wish people would stop calling him a "pensioner" as if that's the most important thing about him.

Bluelady Wed 04-Apr-18 23:48:02
Me too. I can only think it makes him sound more vulnerable and worthy of sympathy.

How the facts are reported matters almost as much as the technicalities of the investigation.

Weird how someone with absolutely zero respect for the law, justice, due process etc, can be so hatin’ on burglars.

The rule of law includes the police and CPS deciding whether or not something warrants a trial though surely?

stitched

The rule of law includes the police and CPS deciding whether or not something warrants a trial though surely?

Yes, if after a properly conducted investigation, the decision is made that no crime has been committed / it's not in the public interest to bring charges etc. Provided that, those decisions are made in accordance with the rules governing investigations and charging decisions.

The problem I have is with the posters that seem to be suggesting that killing a burglar is always justified / self-defence so the police don't need to do anything other than mop up the mess and id the dead person.

We don't even know yet how the home owner will plead, and that depends on the investigation and on how he is advised by his legal team. If they advise him that he stands a chance of a suspended sentence, or a very short prison sentence, then he might plead guilty to manslaughter. That would be the case if he grabbed a kitchen knife and lashed out with it. That would probably be considered 'excessive force', I think. We don't know what the weapon he stabbed the intruder with as yet.

Thanks Chaz I agree with your post. My point was directed to Bertrand who believes it should automatically go to trial and that the police shouldn't get to decide if a crime has been committed.