To not want to be saddled with SIL debts

[Tinkobell]

My SIL is 46. She is DH only sibling. SIL Is single, possibly gay, has high functioning ASD, private school and university educated, no assets, a history of failed careers and had returned home in middle age giving her parents a list of unpaid debts and bailiff letters to sort out. SIL is back in her old bedroom and trying to get any kind of locally paid work. DH and I feel she's a ticking time bomb. In laws are getting older, running out of money and energy to deal with her. Does anyone have any advice on dealing with family members like this? We've suggested citizens advice etc. We've our own kids and life worries to get through.

That applies to any property they own.

You sound over involved in the current situation.

OPhaving been in a similar position, I am pretty confident that PILs WILL ask you for money when they run out. Then you will get the tears, the guilting, even if it's unintentional.

Help your SIL, but make sure your own family assets are protected. Good luck.

@Degustibusnonestdisputandem1
I have no issue with this thread taking a tangent to your situation ....if that's what you wish. It strikes me that there's a few first-handers on this thread gleaning info, and that can only be a good thing. Like I say, not easily talked about down the pub! Getting support for people who are high level ASD is a grey area. In our family we have 2 other ASD, who are much higher dependency. Ironically, their situation is far more straightforward- getting POA, access to assisted living etc. I think for a high functioning person it's actually so much harder because it's hard to define ASD over just a character trait. I'm sure not everyone with high ASD is rubbish with finance.....probably plenty completely the opposite!

@R2G - yeah. You could say that. But with DH working 60hrs pw and the PILS having done jack really for 46 years, who else? You can't not care about the people who love people that you love. Or perhaps you can, and it bears a heavy weight in your heart. Or you have to deal with the tears and heartache down the line. That's what I'm trying to avoid.

PiLs done jack for 46 years?

Blimey.

Aw, poor girl 😟. It sounds like it’s all too much for her to handle. Lots of us have been there. OP, a little bit of compassion wouldn’t go amiss.

It would help avoid inheritance tax, yes. But clawback of assets for care costs is a different thing. There's no 7 year rule there.

@Bluelady .....that's probably a bit unfair of me. I'm sure they've handled most of the tears and upsets over years and years. But in terms of seeking diagnosis / actions, zilch. She's struggled with bulimia for 25 years since Uni. I pointed out back then she had a serous eating disorder and we got help via EDA. It's the doing stuff bit that's lacked.

@ PaulDacreRimsGeese ....if flat number 2 was in DH name / ownership but used as a home for SIL, then this couldn't be used for future care costs, providing flat was gifted 7 years Pre death...right?

You're mixing up the rules about what councils can reclaim for care costs and how far back gifts can be counted for IHT, I think? They're not the same.

If flat 2 is in DHs name, that's fine if he's paid them market price for it. If it's simply been given it by PILs, yes it is potentially reclaimable for care costs and there isn't a 7 year cap on that. The rules for care costs aren't as black and white as for IHT and councils are being increasingly proactive about people giving money away, especially if it's for large sums and is easily available in an existing asset.

If the donation to him happens more than 7 years before the parent dies, if eg half of it got reclaimed by the local authority for care costs and half was left unspent when they were dead, then yes the other half wouldn't count for IHT purposes.

Remember that care costs will be incurred before death. So when they get incurred and the local authority assess who's paying, they obviously won't have the benefit of knowing how long the person needing care will live for. They couldn't use the 7 year rule even if they wanted to. Rules for IHT don't kick in until a person is dead.

Ok. Thanks. Sounds like DH would need to make that purchase independently...all v involved. Of course there'd be 2nd home stamp to pay also. Might be easier for her to stay put. Mmmm.

Yes. 8 or 9 years is not that long really. I guess it would be harder to get actual evidence if you were looking at anything from the pre-computerisation era? But I think it was about the mid 90s when the onus was shifted onto the individual paying for old age care rather than the state, so around a similar time. I know there used to be NHS dementia wards into the early 90s and you didn't pay for them any more than you did if you were eg on a cancer wad.

There are also rules about reasonable contemplation of care needs at the time the gift is made. So time isn't the only factor to take into consideration.

How old are your PiLs, OP? My parents didn't need care until they were 96 and 99, I don't imagine a gift made 20 years before would have counted. And how are people giving their kids a big deposit going to fare, it's becoming more and more commonplace now.

@Degustibusnonestdisputandem1
I am so sorry that this tread has made you feel sad. The only thing I can say that may help is that the thoughts and feelings said on here by people with family with Aspergers have all come from a place of love.
I love my sister dearly, she has had some really difficult periods in her life and I have moved heaven and earth to be there to support her, when she has allowed.
However, she has no long term life plan, and in her 30's this worries me. I am so careful what I say to her so that she doesn't feel like a nuisance as she has come such a long way, especially the last year.
There is no support for high functioning person, so that support comes from those closest, usually family. Please understand that for us, even though we love you dearly, it can be hard sometimes being the support for another adult, I say this as gently as possible, and please do not take offence. We want to help, we don't see aspergers as a nuisance, but we worry about the future and how to keep supporting as we get older and the wider support network reduces.

My sister is the kindest person you will meet, she is wonderful with my son, i wouldn't change her, i just want to help her have the happiest and most fulfilling life she can.

Not just how old are they but also do they have any currently anticipated care needs.

I'd agree, get tailored specialist advice. If you're thinking of this you need more than MN can give you.

My PIL's are mid to late 70's and DH turns 50 next year. TBH touch wood....they are in pretty good health - some depression (not surprising) and usual aches & pains but v physically active, which is great. The SIL actually is in much poorer overall health - eating disorder over 2 decades taken its toll. You can't speculate really. I've friends from my age who've just died suddenly from heart attacks etc.
I think we just ride it a while. What's clear is SIL needs to try and secure some basic work (pride is an issue) and will need to for as long as she is able. I sure all of PILs money will have to go her way and we just try and drip it as a top up for as long as it lasts. If anyone has any info on Personal independence allowance for Aspergers, that would be very handy. Thank you.

Hi op, I really feel for your in laws. It sounds like an incredibly difficult situation for all of you. I'm close to your sil's age and suspect that I have undiagnosed asd. You mentioned that your sil isn't diagnosed so basically as far as I know she won't be untitled to any support. I'm considering getting a private assessment due to the long NHS waiting list and was told by the assessor that only an NHS diagnosis is accepted by the government if you want to claim benefits. Even if she gets a nhs diagnosis of asd (Which can take 12-18 months in some areas) she may be viewed as too high functioning to actually need help. Whilst I have sympathy for your sil I think that she is behaving really poorly towards her parents. I think that they need to stop supporting her financially, obviously I don't mean kicking her out of the house but they shouldn't give her any money. Whilst she's being enabled she has no need to get assessed. You said that she's stubborn so will probably need pushing to get help. Having autism doesn't give you a free pass to exploit your family and from what you said she's taking advantage of her elderly parents.

@Strigiformes thank you for your insight. What you said about NHS/private assessment is what I would have expected. Budgets are so tight I can see why a person who drives around, is articulate and capable in so many ways when others aren't, is not going to qualify for anything. Have you found any support or voluntary groups that can help? I've just looked at National Austism on budget management which just redirects you to CAB Advice. The options there for people with mental illness seem very blunt. It's kind of take over the lot or do nothing....