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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not want to be saddled with SIL debts

160 replies

Tinkobell · 03/04/2018 09:42

My SIL is 46. She is DH only sibling. SIL Is single, possibly gay, has high functioning ASD, private school and university educated, no assets, a history of failed careers and had returned home in middle age giving her parents a list of unpaid debts and bailiff letters to sort out. SIL is back in her old bedroom and trying to get any kind of locally paid work. DH and I feel she's a ticking time bomb. In laws are getting older, running out of money and energy to deal with her. Does anyone have any advice on dealing with family members like this? We've suggested citizens advice etc. We've our own kids and life worries to get through.

OP posts:
MargaretCavendish · 03/04/2018 11:56

Seems to me you're only worried about the possibility your in laws will 'fritter' away their money, meaning you won't cop so much in their wills.

I think this is astonishingly harsh - OP has been really clear that her DH is worried about both his parents' own future (they wouldn't, sadly, be the first to really seriously compromise their own future and options for a bail out that proves futile), and for the SIL in the long-term.

This kind of accusation, though, sadly is where a lot of family disputes over money end (I've seen one close-up, though not in my own immediate family), and that's a good reason for the parents not to do anything that looks like blatantly giving the son power over the daughter/how much help she gets, as that could introduce something really corrosive into all their relationships.

Wintertime4 · 03/04/2018 11:58

It’s probably a good idea if she goes bankrupt? Or has some kind of financial arrangement- see citizens advice. It means she will have wiped the slate, but be restricted to living within her means for some means. No store card debt etc. Then her parents could phase her out of the house.

My friend went bankrupt after mental health problems. She says it was one of the best things that ever happened to her. All the stress just melted away.

I’d get stuck in, with DH. Her parents are probably feeling overwhelmed. Get advice from charities and citizens advice and get some talking going with her and parents. Ask her if she feels she could do with help in the future, start talking about how she would cope renting again. Or if she feels she could do with help to be independent. List what she finds hard, what is ok. No shame in it. Even devise a plan with her... like 6 months to find work, 12 months to find a room, helping her every step of the way. Being clear that her parents will not always be there to take her in.

MargaretCavendish · 03/04/2018 12:03

Out of interest, do you know what triggered this recent escalation in the situation that meant she had to move home? If she'd always been running up huge debts and showing no financial responsibility that would have caught up with her long before 46, so something must have changed. Did she lose her job? Any chance of a relationship breakdown that you didn't know about? If she was keeping her head above water, even if imperfectly, then that might be achievable again - it's quite different to the (quite common) case of the 46 year old who never left home and lived independently.

pandarific · 03/04/2018 12:12

Sounds similar to my sister. Alas, if she won’t go to CA, won’t sign on, and is of the opinion she’s fine and everyone else is wrong for pointing out she is mentally ill/in some way unwell, there is nothing you can do except advise your DPs parents NOT to pay her debts, and yourself detach from the situation.

It’s sad, but when there is an adult child like this that lives with their parents and behaves badly, the parents often enable out of love.

pandarific · 03/04/2018 12:15

Ah, maybe I’m being too negative. As people have pointed out, bankruptcy is a good option, also she is looking for work so can in theory live independently again. Can you help her find a job perhaps?

mrsmuddlepies · 03/04/2018 12:26

Demanding POA and that your inheritance from your PILS is safeguarded and then brandishing 'not my circus, not my monkeys' is a complete contradiction. Your PILs may love having their daughter home because she loves them unconditionally and is not after them just for their money.
I am always shocked by some DILS screaming that their husbands family is nothing to do with them but, at the same time, being very anxious for the inheritance from them. You can't have it both ways.

TheJoyOfSox · 03/04/2018 12:27

Sorry I’ve not read the full thread, but wonder why you would be saddled with someone else’s debt? Are you guarantor on loans?

My ex-mil took on her DH debts after his death until she was told by another family member that it wasn’t hers to pay.

This is your SIL problem, nobody else’s. Just leave her to sort her own problems out. With some people the more ‘help’ they get, the less inclined they are to sort things out for them self. If you or you IL pay her debts, she’ll just rack up new ones. She needs to pay her own debts to learn about cause and effect.

zzzzz · 03/04/2018 12:38

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Cloudsclouds · 03/04/2018 12:38

Why have you mentioned that she’s possibly gay?

KC225 · 03/04/2018 12:53

Gosh, there are some mean people on this thread. I don't for one minute think you would begrude the help if you thought it would be a one off and and a leg up. But in your heart you know it's not. An adult child back in the ageing parents bedroom, handing over debts and burying her head in the sand must be frustrating. You have had some good advice regarding agencies.

Where does she the money for money drinking and gym membership?

Are you worried that you will be expected to house her and 'take care if business' when the time comes?

DairyisClosed · 03/04/2018 12:59

Why doesn't she just declare bankruptcy?

zzzzz · 03/04/2018 13:03

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PaulDacreRimsGeese · 03/04/2018 13:09

I presume by 'saddled' OP means that PILs will eventually run out of their own resources to bail SIL out. Thus meaning they're not only the next port of call whenever SIL needs money again, but they're also potentially in a position where it might be a choice between financially assisting PILs and seeing them struggle.

BarbaraofSevillle · 03/04/2018 13:20

Depending on the size of the SILs debts, and whether she has any assets, bankruptcy could be the best solution - if she has no assets or disposable income and the debts are under £15k, a debt relief order may also be an option.

As others have said, any money given to her for bail out by her parents is currently falling into a black hole that will never be filled, which could cause the parents difficulties if their money or equity runs out, they could be left in trouble themselves due to the SILs financial problems.

OP, Martin Lewis has published an advice booklet on debt and mental health. Could this help?

www.moneysavingexpert.com/credit-cards/mental-health-guide

Takeaweeseat · 03/04/2018 13:25

It's not really your business, is it OP?

Why do people on Mumsnet always trot out this line? Of course it's her business if she's going to have to watch her PIL having to get into debt to pay for these debts, have bailiffs at their door and god knows what else. So the SIL can be as selfish as she likes, run up more debt because "it's no-one's business", seriously?

Takeaweeseat · 03/04/2018 13:48

Seems to me you're only worried about the possibility your in laws will 'fritter' away their money, meaning you won't cop so much in their wills

I think you're the only person to say that...just shows the way you think about things eh?

CHERRYBL0SS0M · 03/04/2018 14:00

@Tinkobell

I totally understand exactly how you feel. I have a sibling who exhibits the behaviours and traits you describe for your SIL, even down to the personal relationships and we have wondered about her sexuality.
(Note - there is nothing wrong with them being gay at all - just mentioning it, as all we would like is for them to settle down, but with no relationships to speak off - its hard to know how that will happen).

My sister has made some very poor decisions and is a people pleaser so easily manipulated, to the point she has signed up to loans & phone contracts in her name for other people and ended up in court after doing something a "friend" told her to do.
She is very bad with money also, and often asks for a loan until payday to top up the car with fuel, but will then drive people all over the place to help them out.
Anyway - I am nearly 10 years older than my sister, and could see that she was struggling in senior school and suggested back then that there could be something else going on. Parents were dismissive, and because she was a quiet but poor student, she was just labelled as nice, but a bit slow.
Her late 20s was a really tough time for my sister, and having moved out, she was being heavily controlled by flatmates, who were taking all her food and money. They were trying to ostracise her from us and it was very difficult, she cancelled visits, and kept secrets and hardly saw and spoke to any of us. It took a friend driving her to my parents to tell them of the situation for things to change. She moved back home to my parents house, and I went with her to collect her things the same day.
It was at that point we were finally able to talk to her, with this friend present, so that she listened. Every conversation prior, for years, had been dismissed and ignored, this time, the friend was saying the same we had been saying (that she needed help with decision making, that she needed support managing money, that her judge of character wasn't great etc), and it finally registered. She has an awfully hot temper, and has squared up to me many times in an argument (often out of nowhere!), so it was suggested that she seek help for that, and also discuss depression. She saw a councillor and things improved a little. Then as she was receptive, I suggested that she could be on the autistic spectrum, and asked her to think about talking to her doctor, which she did. Took 2 years from then but she did get an Aspergers diagnosis - high functioning, as she can keep a job (same job for over 10yrs), but socially, she struggles so much.

Like you said, a late diagnosis worried her, and us, as to the effect it could have on her mental wellbeing, it was already delicate, but in fact it has had the opposite affect. She understands now why she feels different, and didn't get the social prompts that other people understand. We now understand her properly, and able to bare in mind how she looks at things so family life is less fraught. Having a reason for her different behaviours and actions have given her such a calming affect, she feels so less confused.

Like you, my DH and I are worried for what will happen when my parents are no longer with us. She is living with a friend now, but that will naturally come to an end when the friend wants to settle down, & there is no way she can afford to live on her own (and I worry about her being on her own!) We have a child with ADHD and a chronic health condition, so have our hands full at home, and worry for their future!
I have said that I understand if parents give a greater inheritance to her as she will need it more that us. But, I can't be there to pick up the pieces all the time, I have so much I'm dealing with already. I too have lost sleep over the future.

Sorry this has become so long! there is so much to consider when you have a family member like this, they need some support to be independent from family, but just a little bit, and there is just nothing out there to help with having this full independence. You don't want to be too involved - so giving them independence, but the second someone isn't helping it falls apart for them! They are grown adults but need help in just a few aspects- and its hard!
Happy to talk via PM if it helps!

Tinkobell · 03/04/2018 14:57

SIL is a very bright and academically able person. But she is also a vulnerable person who through ASD or just personality doesn't pay bills and who hasn't shown to date any conscience about spending other people's money. The worst case scenario that we would want to prevent is her becoming a homeless person.....crazy as that sounds it's not a huge leap away from reality. We want to try and help but can't take her on fully.

OP posts:
Tinkobell · 03/04/2018 15:05

Some people have mentioned we are concerned about getting nothing from a will. I'm sorry I don't get the thinking of some contributors. We are not expecting a bean and never were. We are expecting that anything left over post-care of PILs would go to SIL. The fear, if I'm honest, is what on earth to do when that runs out? The debts to date have totalled at least £50k. We don't want to see her on the streets.

OP posts:
Tinkobell · 03/04/2018 15:14

@CHERRYBLOSSOM thanks for sharing your story. I'm sorry to hear of your sisters situation and I think she's done so well to hold her job for 10 years, she must have people around who 'get' her. I think at the right point with SIL we may suggest ASD and just leave it with her ...she cannot be forced into anything. A diagnosis might help her understand herself better. She has low emphathy but has persisted with a career in nursing and caring which sadly has gone from bad to worse with dismissals and no references. We found out recently she was giving at large portions of income that she couldn't afford to The Church. Fine if you can afford it, but she couldn't ):

OP posts:
StaplesCorner · 03/04/2018 15:17

So not going to bother with the CAB then? Maybe look for a more difficult solution?!

redcollargirl · 03/04/2018 15:19

If she is that bad with money suggest that PIL look at trusts in their will. There are some that can be set up for vulnerable people that don’t affect benefits.

I feel for you as my DB was like this. Unfortunately he died in his 50s and was living in fairly appalling conditions as he messed up so many times with unpaid rent that most landlords wouldn’t touch him.

Tinkobell · 03/04/2018 15:19

@BarbaraofSevillle - thank you for Martin Lewis pointer, he's a wealth of info esp around these grey areas. Really appreciated.

OP posts:
52FestiveRoad · 03/04/2018 15:38

Presumably they have a house so if they need care, there will be money to pay for it.

Assuming that SIL will leave, it can be difficult to make adult children residing in their parents house leave for the house to be sold, especially if she is vulnerable. She may claim a right to remain in 'her ' home.

zzzzz · 03/04/2018 15:48

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