To not want to be saddled with SIL debts

[Tinkobell]

My SIL is 46. She is DH only sibling. SIL Is single, possibly gay, has high functioning ASD, private school and university educated, no assets, a history of failed careers and had returned home in middle age giving her parents a list of unpaid debts and bailiff letters to sort out. SIL is back in her old bedroom and trying to get any kind of locally paid work. DH and I feel she's a ticking time bomb. In laws are getting older, running out of money and energy to deal with her. Does anyone have any advice on dealing with family members like this? We've suggested citizens advice etc. We've our own kids and life worries to get through.

It's not really your business, is it OP?

We won't be legally saddled but we know the calls and the crying down the phone will certainly come to us in time.

Could say that @Bluelady, but should DH also feel so? I'm his DW, not easy to just switch off.

Would she accept help from external agencies? That's the fundamental question.

Ask her to get a copy of her credit report. (They ask for all her addresses for the last 6 years). At least then you will know how much debt she is hiding.

HF ASD can be an indicator for poor executive functions, ie she probably can't organise or prioritise very well. Debt is so easy to get into in such circumstances.

I'd recommend electronic organisers, and having standing orders or DDs set up for everything so she can't forget.

I'm speaking as someone who has degrees, yet can buy a birthday card, write and stamp it and then forget to post for weeks, and can't organise herself out of a paper bag. I probably also have HFA so I understand firsthand that there is no link between intelligence and organisational ability.

She'll probably be anxious, and will be relieved to have someone take her through the steps of getting it sorted, and showing practical ways of stopping it happening again.

Regardless of her difficulties, she's an adult so she's legally responsible for her own debts. The only way you'll be "saddled" with her debts is if she asks you to pay them off and you agree. You have, quite rightly, said you wouldn't want to take this on as your own children come first so it's not your concern.

If you actually want to help her (not clear from your post) then the best thing you and DH could do would be to concentrate on helping her to find work and then giving her lessons in basic budgeting. You could also contact the National Autistic Society for advice, they have a helpline and a section on their website around supporting people with ASD to manage their finances.

I fail to see how the speculation about your SIL's sexual preferences are in any way relevent to the problem at hand by the way.

I think that the ILs spending money they had earmarked for their old age care on SILs debts is an issue that involves the OP, tbh. What happens when that is gone and the ILs get to the stage where they cannot cope? Then the OP & her DH will probably have to sort things out as the SIL does not sound like she would be any help. That would worry me and I think it is a fair question to ask the ILs, what are their plans/expectations if that happens?

It’s madness for PILs to pay off her debts. They need to get her proper advice on either repayment or bankruptcy. Spending their savings on her is pointless when these debts are not theirs.

Time for some tough love I think - can you DH explain this to the PILs and book an appointment with one of the relevant agencies? No you can’t frogmarch an adult but if they refuse to pay any more it may force her hand.
How much is she drinking?

FIL does keep bailing her out. She's spending their old age / care savings, a
worry.

THIS ^^ is your main problem. Your DP needs to put his effort into stopping this, rather than trying to deal with his sister.

Don't want bailiffs turning up at PILs
house

It’s not their debt so they can’t enforce SILs debts on the parents, or take their stuff, so no need to worry on their part.

I think your DP needs to tell his sister that if unless she takes responsibility for her debts and calls the CAB / stepchange, then she needs to leave.

We won't be legally saddled but we know the calls and the crying down the phone will certainly come to us in time.

Of course yiu won’t be legally responsible, unless of course you’ve agreed to be her guarantor on any debts.

Have you and DH agree what you will do if she turns to you for help. Although given your lovely attitude to her, she’d have to be absolutely desperate.

Your DH shoud talk to his parents in a non judgemental way about securing their (and to some extent, her) future. The worst outcome for everyone is that they run out of money and they and her face impoverished futures.

So talk about POAs. He needs to be it - it should not be shared with his DSis. He might then take over control, with their permission, of some of their savings, leaving them with a current account and reasonable budget, plus stuff like receiving notifications from the Land Registry if they try to sell equity or remortgage. So they simply cannot bail her out to the extent it harms their welfare. Your DH can be blamed. His parents might be glad of this. (Tell the old fashioned dad that it is his responsibility to ensure his eventual widow needs to be taken care of.)

At the same time accept that she is their daughter and they may want to believe the best. Unconditional love is what parents do. They may also want to ensure her future in the will in a way that is detrimental to your DH, out of concern for her, not favouritism. He should consider her strengths. It is not necessarily a bad thing for an adult child to be living at home as parents become more elderly. Whatever her "faults" (and being gay is not one!) assume she is both loyal to her parents and capable of calling an ambulance in an emergency. If your DH makes sure no more money is lost, there may be scope for the sister to take on more of any future care burden, plus enough left for her to have some future without them. All win?

We won't be legally saddled but we know the calls and the crying down the phone will certainly come to us in time.

You and DH need to sit down and you need to be very very frank with him.
If they try to pull this BD you tell them to enjoy the bed they made and these aren't your monkeys or your circus and hang up on them.

If you don't discuss these issues with them then they will learn not to bring them to your door.

But you need to tell DH that you will not be responsible for SIL in any which way. And you need to run through all the possible scenarios.

Ask him if she gets made homeless due to her own fault then what will he do because she isn't coming to live with you.

'possibly gay' = the best excuse I've heard in some time for not stepping up to good human-ing with frail family in trouble.

If she has HF ADD and had the educational opportunities above, then clearly it is her disability and not her fault.

My DD aged 9 has HF ASD she is so disorganised, with emotional problems on top, I worry how she will fair out in the Adult world, hold a job, pay bills.

It is hard to hold down a job and organise bills for most NT people. Give her a break and some support not financial but some understanding, she didn't ask for her life to go tits up because her understanding of the world is different.

Sorry ADD.

AND again ASD.

I can understand your anxiety OP as she won't become your problem (and she will if she's the type to cry down the phone, ask for money, etc), until your PILs have either died or become unable to assist her any longer. I think I would sound out agencies who are able to help her as her ASD and poor financial control won't go away. Once your PILs are gone where will she live? Could she cope living alone or would she need to go to an assisted living facility? You and your DH need to decide what your role will be and then stick to what you decide. I suspect that you'll need to be on hand to provide advice, contact the relevant agencies, possibly set up standing orders to pay her rent, bills, etc, so basically you'd have managerial functions, but you wouldn't be responsible for her debts. Would she accept you having power of attorney, perhaps, when the time comes? That might help to simplify things, if she would agree to it.

If she gets an IVA or goes bankrupt, there should be no question of bailiffs turning up at the door.

It’s not their debt so they can’t enforce SILs debts on the parents, or take their stuff, so no need to worry on their part.

If the program "If You Can't Pay We'll Take It Away" is anything to go by, this is only true if the parents can provide receipts for everything to prove it belongs to them.

@Needmoresleep
Yes that does seem like a reasonable option that you outline. FIL decided to make SIL/DH sole executor, as he doesn't trust SIL with any money. We've told them to just make sure they have enough left to care for themselves and any unexpected health events that they might need money for. We want to help but can't do so financially- not cos we are mean but because we don't know how we can afford to help our own DC's through high education let along ever retire. It's the squeezed middle.

have you sat down one to one with her and had a kind comrforting chat.not just when something bad happens r she needs confronting for f*cking up.
does anyone talk to her.i get you say your mum and dad aren't the type who talk bout this but then this isn't ur sil fault and so shes going to be in dire need of someone to be there for her.if she has mental health and or other issues then she needs support.so maybe her mum and dad need to start being these type of people instead of bailing her out then complaining bout it.becuae her issues are why she does it.and this type of thing needs love and support.
so would she take help and guidance from outside.some talking therapies.
is there anything she wants to do.in life?could she volunterr or find a course or class.its all focused in on how she copes with her problems which is bad yes.but is anyone helping her to get better or see outside the box to find a life for herself.one she can enjoy and get confidence in herself because of it.right now she is in this cycle of being poorly and then using poorly ways to cope and acting out etc.and then nooene helps.she gets confronted.guilt.shame,lonely and so it all starts again.
would you be open or getting your dh to sit with her.when all is calm.meet u for coffee and asking what "we can do to help,get her happy or some semblance of confidence and life"
and getting help for her parents to how to cope and guide someone who struggles with what ur sil does.

Could say that @Bluelady, but should DH also feel so? I'm his DW, not easy to just switch off

Yes. This isn't any of either of you's business or concern unless you choose to make it so.

She is an adult without children to support. She can sort this out. If your PILs choose to help her that is their choice, but it doesn't mean you are obliged to help. I assume you have a mortgage/rent to pay and children to support? If so then you would be daft to take on any responsibility at all for her debts.

Personally I would stay as far away from this as possible. The more you take on in a supportive role the more likely you are to get sucked into paying off debts. You and your DH just need to practice repeating "I'm sorry but that just isn't going to be possible for us" for when the tearful phone calls come.

@juneau ......agree with all your thoughts. There is a big screaming complication in this. The ASD is very high functioning - can do most things except relationships (critical) and gauge relative risk (scary - has had accidents) is NOT diagnosed. ☹️ It is very sad for her. The broader family (younger generation) are all aware of it. We talked to PIL about it and they recognised that she was ASD but had never done anything about it. They were of the opinion that she would resist or struggle any GP visit. The ASD makes work relationships v hard / short-lived. She needs to earn some money just to tick over.