To think this is an april fools joke gone too far!

[Gabbyleo]

I've had enough really. out of any day not Easter. My DCs 8, 5 and 3 have been waiting patiently all month for their chocolate eggs. I wake up this morning to find the Easter eggs all eaten with the the boxing left in the cupboard , the wrappers inside with one smarty, button or malteser left . I put it on the top of the cupboard so only DH and the DS 1&2 (18 and 15) could reach them. I go up to DS room and they were pretending to sleep. I wake them up and they admitted to eating all the Easter eggs. there was 8 of them! I cant actually believe it! They said they were planning to go to shop and buy some replacements but it was closed. They claimed it was an 'April Fool joke but went wrong'. The worst thing was they both found it funny I've told them they have to apologise to younger DCs. That there consoles and phones will be confiscated for all Easter break and that they are grounded and won't be going to any of their friends house. April Fools jokes are supposed to be funny! DH told me in going too far but I don't care sick of them treating the younger ones like shit. Rant over.

Did you take any responsibility for your role in this

Your DH is enabling this bad behaviour from your older two. Let the 18 year old live separately for a bit, a shock of how much you do for him may give him a wake up call. It also means that you can deal with the 15 year old without him having allies to team up with against you.

You need to ensure your DH acts as a team WITH YOU.

I think you all need to just stop, stop and breathe. While the chocolate was clearly the catalyst, it is obvious that it wasn't the root problem. There are now so many issues that it's become a rolling mass resembling a snake ball...and just as dangerous.

The eggs; mean and greedy, but there's no way it should have become your MIL's issue (as for the long list of punishments and the family pile in, words fail me!). I'm not surprised the 18yo went to his cousins and the 15yo on the defensive, you turned a meal into a pack assault. Select an appropriate sanction, apologize for the debacle yesterday and move forward.

The 15yo's behaviour towards his siblings is worrying, but you won't fix it (or your dynamic) without understanding why. I'd try and get him, sans phone, to have a 1:2:1 chat with you. No sanctions if you don't like what he says, but a chance to vent about siblings/you/anything else. You might not get him to talk, but it's worth a try.

Your DH is another matter, you need to get on the same page of parenting and fast - maybe a few episodes of super nanny would highlight the importance of a united approach?

Untill everyone calms down though, you're going to get nowhere!

Is there anyway you can shake up the family dynamics a bit? I was a bit at ds2 and ds3 sharing that bathroom and doing their teeth at the same time in the evening. Do you inadvertently 'round them up' at bedtime?
Teenagers need their own privacy and space and the older ones definitely need to understand that there are 'privileges' to being older but it comes with responsibility.
It sounds as if your ds1 and 2 share a room - can you give the eldest his own room and charge him rent? The age gap between 18 and 15 is quite 'big' in terms of maturity, especially as the eldest has left school and is working, so it could benefit both. It may mean giving up some space elsewhere (downstairs?).
If ds2 could also have his own space that would help - even splitting up a larger room with dividers (e.g. Ikea kallax 5 x 5). Plus can you have a bathroom rota so each gets their own turn, certainly the older ones, the younger 2 can mix and match at their age.
It is hard for teenagers - I parent completely differently from my (very strict) parent so i have some understanding of your dh wishing to do the same. My two are 16 and 15 - I show them I trust them and generally they have returned that. Dh is the opposite - they have to 'earn' his trust but how can they do that if never trusted, catch 22 it seems to me.
My 2 have access to my PayPal and my credit card for essentials like clothes or the odd solo trip to the food shop and have never abused that. Dh initially not happy as he believed all the horror stories you can read on social media that they would spend thousands etc but i knew they wouldn't as i used to go shopping with dd and she was very sensible, knew the value of money and also how more expensive things tend to last longer so some stuff was from Primark and one or 2 things like hoodies from eg superdry.
They also have an Osper card for pocket money (which they 'earn' by doing chores - £10 per month per chore starting from year 7 and going up by one each year). They can use this online for iTunes etc so they are not constantly asking but I can also keep an overview on what they are spending if I feel the need.
I realise with 5 it may not be that simple but hopefully this might give you some ideas.
I would also say dh and I did a parenting course as he can be much more strict but is not consistent, and also yells at them, and then cries if they 'upset' him, so we weren't really on the same page at all. Kids knew that as long as they could ignore his bouts of tantrumming for long enough he would give in and do whatever he was trying to get them to do himself. I kept trying to explain that he needed to model the behaviour he wanted but he never got this
To me the course was too focussed on discipline as it was more geared towards those with big issues e.g. drugs, drinking, staying out all night, and didn't touch on our issues of lack of consistency, and dh saying one thing and doing another, at all.
We also had family meetings occasionally where we all had an equal say in big stuff and agreed together how things would be. Could that work with you, your dh and oldest boys?
I'm kinda with your dh that things have blown out of all proportion now because they are suddenly seeing massive consequences that have never been enforced before. Could you maybe give one thing back to start the process of them having your trust and earning the rest?
School holidays and 'family' occasions can be so hard because of the pressure on parents to conform and try to make sure everyone has a good time.
Best of luck to you all.
PS sorry for the essay!

Goodness this escalated......

Your mother in law sounds fab though!

"as for the long list of punishments and the family pile in, words fail me!"

I do agree with that.

MILs only concern in the matter was driving lessons, so a simple phone call could have alerted her to that.

I'm beginning to see husband's POV about punishments when he was a kid!

That doesn't mean of course no consequences ever!

I agree actually, about the whole family pile up.

Two people only should be disciplining the children.

I agree with some PP that everything has blown up way beyond the initial incident now - and agree that this is because the eggs were a catalyst for lots of other issues (and that if DH had just dealt with them appropriately from the start it could have all been over by lunch with no need to involve anyone else).
But now they've had a sharp shock with the reaction of extended family, and been punished - I feel now you need to draw a line under yesterday if possible and try to move forward on calmer ground, or you risk pushing them more into the "bad guy" and "us vs them" mentality.
If possible, sit them both down either together or one by one and explain you want to draw a line under yesterday, but that some things need to change. They should be treating the rest of the family with respect, doing a fair share of chores, and paying at least a marginal amount of rent if they earn money.
DS15 also needs his anger issues dealing with - though that's a separate issue.
DS18 may still want to leave if he thinks he can get a better deal elsewhere, but then it's up to him to stand on his own two feet or not, and he's more likely to come back and less likely to feel resentment if he feels he left of his own accord rather than leaving after a massive row.

I do feel the loss of the driving lessons seems a bit disproportionate (and means that DS18 has been punished more severely than DS15 despite the worst behaviour coming from DS15), but that's for you, MIL and DH to decide on going forward. Perhaps he can earn them back if it seems he is making an effort?

FWIW I understand why it seems there a difference in the way you speak about them - with such an age gap they will naturally fall into two "groups" of DC, and if one set behaves worse than the other as teens so often seem to do and you're frustarted at being unable t deal with their behaviour without being undermined it's understandable that a different attitude would develop over time. But over time they will also pick up on that, and it's easier to believe it's because they're misunderstood or unfairly treated, or the younger ones are better liked than admit it's due to their own behaviour.

Goodness this has escalated.
It wasn't really MIL or SIL business, any sanctions needed to come from you. It's an entirely separate issue from driving lessons.
However, their behaviour was awful- are they even sorry or ashamed at what they did?
Your 15 yo DS sounds a worry, abusive language and being physical with a much younger sibling needs to be stoped immediately- but again by you & your DH.

The problem is you and your DH oh totally different parenting types.
He doesn't back you, and openly doubts your choices which sends out a very negative message.

The boys took chocolate and received a ridiculous amount of punishments. What (IMO) should have happened was the boys got a telling off from both parents and sent out to replace the eggs by themselves and their own money. and an apology to the younger ones.

That would have been an adequate punishment as it shows that actions have consequences- money and time. But your DH overruled all of that and it became bitter and nasty and humiliating for everyone involved.

Hope you manage to talk to the boys and have a better relationship with the older and younger siblings

I agree with ablatant I was sure you were going to say your two eldest children were your step children. Your family is terribly divided, it is not a unit - you and your husband are not on the same side, your two eldest are a team of their own as they are not part of the whole unit, you and your youngest are another separate team. You all need to do some serious work to redress the balance and bring everyone together.

You and your husband need to work together, decide on how you are going to discipline all the children, you will both have to compromise and find an acceptable middle ground, agree on it, implement it, be consistent and don't undermine each other.

Stop involving other family members, your eldest children have been punished several times over for the same offence and shamed in front of wider family, this is awful. Seek professional, objective, confidential outside help instead of running to your MIL telling tales and expecting her to resolve a situation you and your husband have allowed to spin out of control.

Unless you can completely change the dynamic and fractured relationships in your family I fear your other children will go the same way as your eldest, the overall atmosphere cannot be good for anyone.

It's like a swinging pendulum - from no punishment and here are more eggs to banned from breathing (not quite but almost!)

I agree with others, it's totally messy now and getting dragged out.

I've always been a believer in quick, short, sharp punishments and moving on. My younger ones fight over a toy and I take the toy away for an hour. Older ones give me cheek or backchat and they are on dog poop duty that day, if that doesn't work data on phones gets switched off. Those are just examples but you and your dh need to sit down and come up with similar so you are on the same page. It really does work, dh & I agreed how we would do things because we had different approaches and needed a common ground.

Your issue is still your dh and that has created this them and us divide in your house. Solve that and you are 80% of the way to sorting the rest. Good luck!

MiL sounds great to me.
Making driving lessons conditional on good behaviours sounds reasonable for a barely earning adult. It is reasonable & fair, considering that getting a driving licence when still a teen is a great boost to independence & opportunities. Also, it confirms that being on the road as a driver is not a right but a considerable responsibility.

Interesting that she put conditions on up front to get her funding & endorsement.

Which leads me to OH’s father. Is he around? What kind of father was he to OH? Reasonable ? Good example to follow? Did he sew the seed of good fathering when OH was young & consistently into teens?

It seems to that OH has missed some fathering somewhere along the line & does not have positive experiences, or role models, to draw upon. If the cousin is paternal, how is your OH’s relationship with his siblings?
Do they reflect upon their upbringing & subsequent parenting styles?

Is your OH clear about what makes for good parenting & working together to raise children? Is he clued up or drifting, maybe doing it differently/better from his point of view?

I wonder if MiL was the parent who did the tough stuff by choice or the father was absent?

All of which leads me to suggesting that talking to your GP or Relate for some solo/couple/family therapy may help you & OH open this issue up so that you both & your kids can live together better. All families have fissures & pressure points, & there nothing quite like the teenage years to pile the pressure on to expose any flaws.

The 15yo shoving the much smaller child is not a good sign. It is not an acceptable expression of frustration by any measures. This needs to addressed so that LOs are safe & secure in their own home. Taking time out to be with 15yo is a good start.

I agree with Quartz2208 and ablatant. Involving the mother in law was unnecessary and the pile on and talking about ways to humiliate them is awful. No wonder they are the way they are. They don’t know how to behave or who is going to say what to them.

The OP is getting a kicking on here. I'm sure she loves all of her children but the eldest two are being little shits. My wise old mum had a saying "you can love someone but you don't have to like them" I'm sure the OP feels like that atm.

Because the OP is quick to pass judgement on her husbands behaviour and that of the eldest two (and the behaviour is wrong no question about that) but there is no acknowledgment of her own part in this - and the part that sh has played - and if she wants to rescue the relationship with them (and prevent them going down a bad path) she needs to

The age gap did not cause this - parenting from both sides caused the divide

OP had a perfectly correct initial reaction to what these two did. She told them how shitty they behaved and was sending them off to replace them from their own pocket.

Her H caused all this cluster fuck and I bet it is not the first time. He undermined her then went off and brought them even more to reward their bad behaviour.

He doesn't appear to have given a shit about how upset her youngest would have been.

Maybe involving MIL went too far but why should they have had even more treats?

Magoria I disagree I think her husband has defaulted to the older two because she has to the younger ones, setting up a divide in the household which has led to the incident blowing up.

Her initial reaction spoke volumes as to why this happened in the first place and involving the mil further adds to the divide

I agree magoria
It’s telling that the 15 year old was ready to hand over the phone until the DH said he didn’t have to

I'm with you too magoria. Her response was fine. Her H was wholly inappropriate.

Told DH I don't want him sleeping in my bed until this situation is sorted.

Your bed? Doesn't it belong to both of you?

Why are you surprised that your older kids act in an immature fashion when you are telling your husbands mother tales behind his back and getting her to effectively parent him? They are seeing the example their parents set and following suit.

You and your DH need to sort your shit out WITHOUT your MIL, and then present a united front to the kids. If that means counselling, a serious discussion about your future or whatever else it takes, do it.

It is not your MIL's job to parent your children.

The fact that your husband wants to send his kid off to her for discipline is ridiculous. How has it gotten this far into you two being parents together and you're still not actually behaving like parents?

Your kids need better role models. They need to see they're parents behaving like adults - not running off to their gran when someone happens.

He cannot be best friends with your children all the time. They need parents, not another immature mate to hang around with. Then your husband tries to go to the opposite extreme to what... prove himself.

Parenting classes. Please.

This is all the husband's fault. OP has been trying to parent their children, but he keeps undermining her. It's no wonder she went to her MIL, maybe MIL will speak to her son and tell him to start acting like a responsible parent.
OP's tried talking to him, yet he still does this shit. OP's probably at the end of her tether.

I think she should LTB, then she can parent the children and not have him undermining her at every opportunity.

This is all the husband's fault. OP has been trying to parent their children, but he keeps undermining her. It's no wonder she went to her MIL, maybe MIL will speak to her son and tell him to start acting like a responsible parent.
OP's tried talking to him, yet he still does this shit. OP's probably at the end of her tether.

This... with bells on