AIBU about Hadley Freeman?

[NoSquirrels]

She’s a bit of a crush of mine.

I’ve always loved her writing. But this week she wrote this about 80s movies which is so good.

www.theguardian.com/film/2018/mar/27/1980s-favourite-film-decade-top-gun-stand-by-me-hadley-freeman

She’s been all over the anti-Semitism protests and other issues.
And now she has articulated what I’ve been trying politely to say for ages about the Self ID issue.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/mar/31/man-explains-what-means-be-woman?CMP=ShareiOSAppOther

Please have a read! Then if she’s convinced you sign the petition.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

If she hasn’t feel free just to ignore or talk about 80s movies here, or general women-journalists-who-rock, or your own inappropriate crushes.

itsu and haddock

Fine examples of the point I made. Where is the antisemitism in what I wrote?

Antisemitism is often in the implied, the suggestion that Jews are a powerful cabal who control finance.

The between the lines implications that 'they' are other and 'they' control the world.

So no there was no outright antisemitism - but it was between the lines.

However, it is clearly not a major source of concern to most posters.

Well quite Mousse. There is a very fine line between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism and quite a lot of people on the Left are crossing it with impunity

(2) the increasingly vocal opposition by a section of the Jewish community to anyone who is a non-Jewish expressing views which aren’t flagrantly pro-Zionist, to the point of being branded anti-Semitic
(I’m not commenting specifically on the mural here).

Stereotyping of Jews in murals, pretending Jews control the media, supporting those who deny the holocaust, the nasty attacks on social media of Jewish mps, the murders in Paris, the rising violent anti-semitism in this country, the friendships with people who want to drive Jews into the sea.

These aren't problems. Or if they are, meh, whatevs.

No, the REAL problem actually is Jews who - you've decided - make up racism, apparently to stop anyone non-Jewish criticizing Israel.

We get you, Plums. We know what you are.

Be that as it may (I don’t disagree with you), the point was the similarity between the two debates in their propensity to seek to shut down debate. haddock reported my post presumably with a view to deletion. That’s shutting down debate.

The similarity is that some people can't see either Women or Jews as victims and when they hear of sexism or anti-semitism they dismiss it or say it is untrue. THAT is shutting down debate.

(that's right, they came to protest against a march against racism

Staggering isn't it.

Good on you for getting out there.

Women and Jews - what have they got to complain about?

@Helmetbymidnight you nailed it, those groups aren't victims not like us - whoever us is.

I'll call antisemitism where I see it. Good on you for getting out there @ItsuAddict.

Just because you don't think it's your fight doesn't mean you shouldn't fight. We need to stand together against discrimination.

I like Julie Burchill better. If you disagree, feel free to report me. Thanks in advance.

For the record, Transgendertrend doesn't receive any funding. Only donations, none from Christian fundamentalists. And their website was designed by a supporter. For free.

Hilarious Jezza.

Jezza - why so keen to be reported?

Itsu for being at the march for all our sakes.

Depressing your comments about their inability/unwillingness to engage. Sad that people can be that blind/full of hate.

I'll report you if you like, Jezza.

What would you like to be reported for? (I don't think preferring Julie Bindel is actually against talk guidelines, or a matter for the police).

(I don't think preferring Julie Bindel is actually against talk guidelines, or a matter for the police).

Or even Julie Burchill...I've no idea what sort of thing she's doing nowadays ...hm, probably not best mates with Jezza then?

Tsk. Getting my Bindels and Burchills mixed up. Report me - go on

Julie Bindell is amazing. Does that mean I need to report mysel?

Oh dear, poor Hadley. Even a thread about how brilliant she is has descended into anti-semitism rows.

Ach, she wouldn't care- after all she was on the March last week - she is well used to the shit antisemites come out with.

Women and Jews -isn't doesn't get more uppity than that.

Just cos you're used to it doesn't mean it's not shit.

It is interesting how hard it is to express revulsion at the conduct of the government of Israel without being seen as/sounding anti-Semitic. We need to find language that clarifies that dichotomy. . There are certainly parallels with the trans debate- there too some language seems to be missing.

I used to say that I wasn't anti Semitic, I was anti Zionist. That was certainly the terminology used when I was a young woman to express the crushing disappointment of people of the left who had such hopes of the new state of Israel. It had seemed to have such a bright future.

I do think there are similarities between the trans debate and the anti-Semitic debate, and I think you’re right Bertrand in suggesting that it might be the language of the debate.

More, though, I think the force of feeling that leads to brooking-no-arguments shut downs comes from different places. Standing up so absolutely to anti-semitism I think is borne of a fear of an unutterably tragic history ever repeating itself. The self-IDing brigade who seek to shut down biological women come from plain old fashioned male superiority I think. The latter is pyrrhic, the former not. But the language and methods employed are very similar.

No I don't understand this at all.

What is it you want to say about Jews that you feel you aren't allowed to say?