AIBU about Hadley Freeman?

[NoSquirrels]

She’s a bit of a crush of mine.

I’ve always loved her writing. But this week she wrote this about 80s movies which is so good.

www.theguardian.com/film/2018/mar/27/1980s-favourite-film-decade-top-gun-stand-by-me-hadley-freeman

She’s been all over the anti-Semitism protests and other issues.
And now she has articulated what I’ve been trying politely to say for ages about the Self ID issue.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/mar/31/man-explains-what-means-be-woman?CMP=ShareiOSAppOther

Please have a read! Then if she’s convinced you sign the petition.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

If she hasn’t feel free just to ignore or talk about 80s movies here, or general women-journalists-who-rock, or your own inappropriate crushes.

No reflection upon why Luciana Berger paid a team to trawl through every comment Corbyn has ever made

Cite?

I think you will find that the press were way ahead of any individual who may or may not be doing this. It would also be basic research by his own media office to be prepared for anything which may come up.

The dismissing, minimising and othering of the crapstorm Jewish women MPs in particular have suffered is a disgrace.

I've never heard of her before but thought the article was great. Very clearly articulates how I feel and not anti-trans in any way.

It's far more interesting to have a look at who is funding the trans lobby.

Who are the Rich White Men Intstitutionalizing Transgender Ideology

Follow the money.

You see, the problem when you start digging is no information is trustworthy. Here's the lowdown on that publication:

*As the online news and commentary landscape continues to expand, the nascent conservative web magazine The Federalist has quickly carved out a role as a brash, anti-establishment site. It has also become an outlet for often-rabid anti-LGBT talking points.

Launched in September 2013 as a "web magazine on politics, policy, and culture," The Federalist is helmed by publisher Ben Domenech, a co-founder of the right-wing blog RedState.com and senior fellow at the Heartland Institute, a conservative think tank known for its opposition to climate science and funding from industry sources like the Koch brothers. Co-founder Sean Davis came to conservative journalism after a career in GOP politics, having worked for Gov. Rick Perry (R-TX) and Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK). Senior editors David Harsanyi and Mollie Hemingway and senior writer Robert Tracinski round out The Federalist's leadership.

In its short existence, The Federalist has won plaudits from conservative organizations and activists, not least those best known for their anti-LGBT advocacy. A look at the website's track record on LGBT issues leaves little doubt as to why The Federalist counts some of the most notorious anti-LGBT groups among its most ardent fans.*

www.mediamatters.org/blog/2014/04/02/introducing-the-federalist-a-new-web-magazine-f/198721

I just don't like anti LGBT organisations. I think they have an agenda.

I think it doesn’t matter.

I know what I think on this subject, I have made up my own mind without being pressured or influenced by any ‘organisations’. Apart from the (diverse) posters on MN.

So unless anyone is going to show me that MN is radicalising us by paying posters to argue for women’s rights, I’m not especially interested.

I know biology says women are the class of people who have reproductive systems to bear children. Men do not. I am happy to be intersectional and respectful of pronouns and all that jazz, as long as we can all be clear that trans rights intersect with women’s rights and do not trump them.

Jennifer Bilek, the author of that article, is not homophobic.

But can you really deny that there is a very clear money trail here?

People are making money from people transitioning - setting up clinics and charging for appointments and drugs - sometimes given to children as young as 12 & 13 - presumably with their parent's consent. But can a child really consent, or understand the full significance, of the pathway they are being set along - of lifelong drugs, surgeries and infertility that this pathway leads to?

The head of Mermaids says herself, on a TED talk, freely available on YT, that she took her transitioning child to the US for puberty blocking drugs and paid privately - because the NHS wouldn't provide this treatment. (Because medical ethics. )

I'm a left winger, myself, but you are very foolish to dismiss a conservative publication on this basis, when the evidence is clearly there. I realised a long while ago that this subject transcends party politics. There are right wingers on both sides of the debate - they are left wingers on both sides of the debate.

And someone's making money out of this. There is a very well-funded trans lobby out there, present at every level of our political system, in our schools, police forces, NHS, government focus groups.

I think worrying about the funding of Transgender Trend, a tiny, unfunded group who have published a leaflet, is a bit ridiculous in this context..

@ Terftastic

Well no, that doesn't make a lot of sense in the UK, with its socialised medical care. A small minority of people seek private treatment but the vast majority are served within the NHS. The NHS isn't making money out of anyone.

Very few children are given drugs, 80% of those under 10 (?) who attend a gender identity clinic turn out not to need anything but some structured assessment and are never given drugs. No one under 18 gets any surgery in the UK. Those children who are medicated, are treated by a team of clinicians, having been fully assessed.

One UK GP was alleged to have been practicing outside these guidelines and the GMC restricted her licence, until they have had a full hearing, she's not been found guilty of any breech.

The last time that someone claimed that there was some big pharma conspiracy to get all the kiddies trans hooked, I looked up the drugs that transsexuals take, the drug that a post operative trans woman takes cost the NHS £10.50 for an 84 day supply. Testosterone gel, for trans men was £40 for 30 sachets. That's not big pharma money, my HRT costs more than that.

The money that Stonewall get is all listed, perfectly normally, in their annual report. What other trans lobby groups are you aware of, I'll be happy to look them up for you, most charities are quite transparent with their funding, that's why I'm so surprise about Transgender Trend.

The head of Mermaids says herself, on a TED talk, freely available on YT, that she took her transitioning child to the US for puberty blocking drugs and paid privately - because the NHS wouldn't provide this treatment. (Because medical ethics. )

Exactly, I'm glad that we agree that the medical community isn't conspiring to over treat children for a bit of extra cash.

@Stillscreaming: I'll repeat my earlier post as you've ignored it

'The rad fems'? Who are you talking about? confused Where are these 'provable facts'?

Why don't you email Transgender Trend and ask, like I suggested?

Stillscreaming, you are in denial.

That article is from the US, the writer is based in New York (and not anti-LGBT as you stated). But make no mistake, the trans lobby is alive and well in the UK, and just getting started.

Take a look at the Twitter timeline for the Mermaids advocates - Susie Green and Helen Islan.

They detail holding training sessions in the police force, the NHS and so on. They also cheer-lead Dr Helen Webberley who holds private gender clinics, and will dish out the drugs privately. Where there is money to be made, people will make it. Putting kids on a lifelong pathway of drugs, sex hormones and private surgeries - it's happening. Look at almost any youngish trans person's twitter timeline - they will have a paypal or a Go Fund Me to pay for surgeries or drugs. Drugs that they must expect to be on for their whole lives, or de-transition.

You can close your eyes to this, but others won't.

@NoSquirrels

I know what I think on this subject, I have made up my own mind without being pressured or influenced by any ‘organisations’. Apart from the (diverse) posters on MN.

Im less sure about this than you are. Looking on MN you'd think that your view is quite normal but the lack of success with the petition, suggests that it might not be a very commonly held view at all. I don't think there are any paid posters but I think that MN does have a small number of prolific posters and there has been a degree of social contagion. I think that it's much easier to spread ideas of exclusion than it is to convince anyone to transition. We all want to hear that we're superior but oppressed, no one want to hear that they need a knife near their sensitive parts.

That article is from the US, the writer is based in New York (and not anti-LGBT as you stated). But make no mistake, the trans lobby is alive and well in the UK, and just getting started.

I didn't state that the publication was anti LGBT, Media Watch did, I supplied a link, as well as giving a quote from their assessment.

Who are the UK trans lobby? I can find Stonewall, who publish their annual report and I find numerous peer support groups but I can't see anyone else, really.

Gendered Intelligence do some training, not really lobbying but they publish a full annual report with funding from The National Lottery, Esmee Fairbank, and Children in Need.

Take a look at the Twitter timeline for the Mermaids advocates - Susie Green and Helen Islan.

I don't find Twitter to be a reliable source of information, it's full of nutters screaming at each other in very short sentences. Mermaids seem to be funded by the National Lottery and are very open about it, they have a big logo on their front page.

You can close your eyes to this, but others won't.

I'm asking for information, I'm asking who funds transgender trend, who haven't answered my email and who this trans lobby are?

My other half is a former professional gay, she's sat in Home Office meeting on LGTB issues and she's not aware of the trans lobby but, as you obviously know more, I'd like you to 'open my eyes'.

Do you have no comment on the trans lobby, and the training groups going into schools and raising 'trans awareness' amongst primary aged children? Because it's happening, but you seem to be denying. Parents have posted on here about their own children being subjected to such "talks" - and those talks involve (presumably judged age-appropriate) primary children told they can "take pills and change to the opposite sex". Is that a responsible thing to tell children? Can they actually tak pills and change to the opposite sex?

There has just been a recent UK government consultation about PSHE in schools - both primary and secondary - and this was very related to trans issues and gender identity. I know - I completed it. But you're in denial.

There have been media reports of Mermaids going into schools and reporting teachers to the police. There have been press reports and court judgements disallowing Mermaids from contacting children who have been put under child protection orders. I can link to them, but you can still dismiss them. It's the media innit? Because you are in denial of what's happening.

Twitter is not necessarily a reliable source of information - but when it's coming from the official twitter accounts of the organisations themselves, surely we can deem it reliable?

Stillscreaming has made a name for herself refusing to accede a single point made by gender critical feminists. Fascinating to observe really. We're lucky to have such a peaktransing machine on these threads.

@stillscreaming I think the petition is lack of exposure to these issues in the general public. I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t find many people “on the street” who would agree a woman can have a penis, no matter how inclusive they were to trans people. So I’m pretty sure the “vocal few” on MN aren’t unduly influencing my understanding of biology.

I actually don’t feel particularly oppressed, but I do recognise that there are ways in which women could be oppressed by this law coming to pass if all the issues aren’t discussed.

I’m more interested in the free speech element and the awful #nodebate stuff than keeping pre-op trans out of bathrooms.

I don't post often because I'm usually breastfeeding when online. But I'm reading everything.

Thank you stillscreaming for helping raise people's critical awareness of the problems of transgender ideology.

@ALittleBitOfButter

Stop trying to silence women who don't agree with you. It might make me feel oppressed. 😉

That's your response stillscreaming. I can't say I'm surprised.

@stillscreaming I assume your DP is aware of all the trans activists in this article, a lot of whom are funded by different trans groups?

Independent

All cis people must be trans allies now, because if we’re not talking trans people up - centring them, if you like - then we must be ignorant bigots. “Passive” support i.e. acceptance is not enough any more.

One thing that’s really interesting is that we’re often seen as ‘other’ – the trans people – and I think cisgender people don’t understand what that ‘cisgender’ means sometimes, and they don’t refer to themselves as cisgendered. When cisgender people refer to themselves as cisgender, I feel like they get it, and they’re joining in with the narrative and the dialogue. Trans people often feel ‘other’, when really we’re just on a spectrum, so if cisgender people put themselves on that spectrum too… I find it very sexy! If someone says, ‘Well, as a cisgender person...’ I go, 'Oh my, they’re bright.'

It’s not enough to be trans and proud. That’s clear.

Every time I see your posts I know that I'm going to enter an ocean of irrationality. Your reply there has certainly proved my point, as it bore no relation to what I said!

Do you have no comment on the trans lobby, and the training groups going into schools and raising 'trans awareness' amongst primary aged children?

I've know that Stonewall and Gendered Intelligence do LGBT awareness in schools. I've never denied it, why would I? Stonewall's learning materials are available online and they are in no way offensive. There's a lot of stuff about knocking down gender stereotypes, boys and girls should be allowed to play with any toys they like, and different kinds of families being of equal value, some families have two mums etc.

... "take pills and change to the opposite sex"...

I think that's a crock of shite. Do you really trust your schools so little that you imagine that's happening in them, do you have any proof that's not 'someone on Mumsnet said...' Because, here's the thing, some people on MN lie, I've seen them do it. Some people put forward really misleading stories, about all sorts of things but particulary trans issues that just aren't true.

assume your DP is aware of all the trans activists in this article, a lot of whom are funded by different trans groups?

You claimed that there were lobbyist and now you're saying activists, which is it? Someone waving a placard at a demo, is an activist, they don't need funding, just some card and a packet of felt tips. A lobbyist is someone who meets with politicians and helps to form policy, it's a much more expensive activity. The latter is powerful, the former is just noisy.

Which are you talking about?

@ALittleBitOfButter

I saw your first comment as an attempt to shut me down. That's silencing someone, isn't it or is it an attempt to engage in conversation that's just gone a bit wrong?