to not understand how anyone can think that girls are harder work than boys

[beclev24]

I know all kids are individuals/ there are easy and difficult kids of both genders etc etc. But I've seen various threads on here about how girls are much harder work than boys, and I can't get my head round it at all.

I have 3 boys. It can be like dealing with a pack of wild animals. They are exhausting to parent (lovely and sweet and gorgeous as well of course, just very hard work.) . Tonight we went to a friend's house who has three girls of similar ages. They were so restrained and quiet and cooperative, while mine needed constant policing to stop them from bouncing off the walls. It seems to be similar wherever we go- that it is a constant struggle to get them to behave, whereas for my friends with girls it seems to happen way more naturally. The stereotype is that boys are harder work physically and girls are more complex emotionally, but my boys are also hard work emotionally! lots of tantrums/ big feelings/ complicated wants and needs/ friendship issues etc.

AIBU? Or just a bad parent?

Serotonin is one of many chemicals, as you well know and the effects of others in the brain are much better understood as are the effects of a Y chromosome on development of the brain pre and post natal.

Testosterone, in particular, is well understood and its effects well documented.

"Are there physical differences? Yeah on average I think there probably are. Is socialisation a massive influence? I have no doubt whatsoever on that"

There definitely are. How many studies need to have been made before you'll move to 'there are physical differences'?

It's strange that you use "may" and "probably" when we know there are physical differences yet you have no doubt about the effects of socialisation when really you should.

Scientist? You mean 'social scientist' don't you?

Just on an individual basis my daughter was much harder work than my sons

She was an angel at school and seemed to swap between angel and devil at home

When she was good she was very very good etc

Very very active until recently much more sporty than the boys etc

They all have their moments though

I wonder if we'd have been unconsciously different if we'd had dd first (probably). At the moment she wears the boys dinosaur waterproofs and goes in the streams and up trees with the boys.

Probably not, if she'd wanted to do it.
Dd1 was (and is still at 17yo) very risk averse (as dh is). She would assess things and go up and do it carefully if she thought she could do it. If she didn't think she could do it then she wouldn't.

Dd2 was not like that. She walked at 8 months, and a week after she took her first steps thought that trying to balance along the back of the sofa was a good idea. She was pretty cross to find I disagreed.
There were a number of occasions we were at the park and you'd see a dad telling his ds that they weren't big enough to do something. Then this little tot with one hand would say loudly "I can" and push past and do it. Was quite funny, but she was always fine doing it.

Ds is between the two, if he doesn't think he can do it he won't, but he's more inclined to think he can than dd1.

One example was the first time they went ice skating aged about 14, 10, 7yo.
Dd1 inched her way round the edge holding on. She didn't fall over once and at the end, she carefully (still an inch at a time) got into the middle of the rink.
Dd2 threw herself onto the ice, fell over lots and was skating well within about 10 minutes. Although also in typical dd2 fashion she managed to find a lady who was clearly very good, who spent some time teaching her how to go backwards and things.
Ds had a long think about going on. He wasn't totally convinced, but once he was on, he dashed around being very proud of how fast he could go. Also lots of falling over.

And at the end of the session dd1 was ready to come off and go home. Dd2 was finding she was beginning to ache and wanting to go home and curl up with a book. Ds otoh was asking if we could go and play tennis, or go swimming as he was still keen to be active.

For the people saying that their boys don’t indulge in the emotional drama/manipulation with their male friends, do those boys equally have deep,supportive, loving friendships with those friends? Where they can talk about feelings and be kind to each other?

Still doesn't clarfy who the 'many people' (and the facts they are referring to) are on this thread though does it.

I can try to explain slowly.
'Many people' refers to the numerous posters on this thread who have posted about their individual sons and daughters. But an anecdote like 'My DS is easier/more difficult than my DD' does not prove all boys are easier/more difficult than girls, or vice versa. Anecdotal evidence is not adequate to prove something. HTH.

Can I ask what people's experiences of their boy/girl children has been in terms of how physically affectionate they are? I'm genuinely just curious; I don't have any theories or opinions one way or another myself, as both my kids are pretty cuddly to limpet-like will you get off me already?! proportions . But I have had a couple of friends tell me that boys are much cuddlier than girls, in their opinion, so was wanting some anecdotes from you guys.

I come from a family of all girls. My Nan has daughters, granddaughters and great-granddaughters. The two great-grandsons were a shock to the system. The consensus here is that girls are far far easier than boys

@NameChangeBiatch
Thank you for reaffirming my decision to not have a sleepover party for my 10yo dd!

@KatharinaRosalie this site must drive you mad; anecdotal 'evidence' rules!

There are clear differences between male and female brains.

You clearly know your science. So, I'd be interested in reading 3-4 good non review articles showing those clear differences.

I agree with you op. I have a DS and a DD. My ds is completely wonderful and lovely but looking after him and bringing him up has been much more physically exhausting than looking after my DD. It's the physicality of boys which is the tiring thing. Regardless of the weather I think I have spent every weekend of his childhood in the park...my constant aim being to get him to burn off his energy. Don't get me wrong, my DD likes a run round the park but if we stayed at home for a day, she'd be perfectly happy whereas my ds would be bouncing off the walls.

I have one of each and perform developmental and autism assessments on children between 2 and 12. So professionally, yes girls are expected to be more emotionally attuned at every age (and girls on the spectrum are protected by this is early primary, but it is their undoing from aged 8 or 9 upwards). I think for most girls this comes fairly naturally. Also girls' self regulation happens younger in girls than in boys. Many 18m to 2yold girls can do turn taking, cooperative imaginative play and sit quietly doing colouring ( this is helped by the fact the girls' fine motor skills are often more advanced, so "small world play" and colouring are more intrinsically rewarding for them at that age than for boys) Little boys ( under age 8) are on average more active ( diagnosis of ADHD has a 10:1 ratio) so more likely to tip into "too active" the point at which this happens will be different for different families. Again for boys running jumping and climbing seem to be more intrinsically rewarding for boys than girls.

After mid primary however, most boys have mastered self regulation and are able to sit still and concentrate. By then most typically developing boys understand the rules of cooperative play, classroom and societal expectations ( so you can take them to Tescos). IME this is the age where the friendship dramas with girls can start, also societal expectations around female attractiveness begin to impinge on their consisiousness. So girls start to judge themselves and each other based on physical attractiveness, start to choose clothing on a non practical basis and even want to experiment with make up :(.

For my own children both dd and ds are reasonably sporty, fearless and outdoorsy dcs (as are dh and myself). However ds definitely needed to be "run" until aged 7 or so, dd not so much. Dd has always cared what other people thought and dreads disapproval, ds quite frankly doesn't give a shit, which has always meant he needed firmer discipline than Dd.
Now they are 11 and 14 and when friends come over the 14 year old boys are a piece of cake quite frankly ( had 4 last night) they are self contained, they understand the house rules and they bring appropriate clothing.
Dd's mates arrive with enormous suitcases containing bafflingly half their wardrobes, but without seemingly anything remotely appropriate for the weather or planned activities. Also huge cosmetic cases and will not listen when I explain there is to be no make up in Dd's bedroom ( house rule- cosmetics live in the bathroom). They then scream, shriek and fall out with each other, someone will end up in tears, refuse to quieten down at a reasonable hour. So although ds was hard work aged 18m-7y and playdates and parties were military exercises right now (aged 8-14) the boys are soooo much easier.

It completely depends on the children, but by two boys age 10 and 5 are a dream compared to my daughter. They are quiet boys who play nicely and not very physical in the house. Happily play with playmobil, Lego , dressing up computer games etc
My daughter 3 is exhausting, talks non stop, very emotional, always arguing with the boys and demanding, wants my attention constantly etc

Stillwishihadabs

Great post...I definitely could relate to your descriptions of boys and girls... exactly like my own dc.

I find people's insistence that they could have played no part in socialising their children baffling. For instance - and I'm sorry to single out a poster, but it's a good example - mrskoala you insist that the differences between your boys and girl can't be socialised because you treat them the same and you don't take your DD out that much. I recognise your posts from other threads, where you say you have one of the most gendered marriages imaginable - that your husband never cooks, cleans or does anything remotely like housework. Do you really think your children might not have noticed how highly gendered their own environment is?

I also wonder on these threads how so many adults seem to only know adults who fall into male/female stereotypes. I guess partially because of the people I meet through work (I'm an academic) and partially through my own preferences all the men I know pretty much were quiet, bookish children who hated PE with a passion, so I've never thought of boys/men as inherently more physical - almost all the really keen runners and exercisers I know are women (though I am not among them!). I'm pregnant and expecting a boy, and while I'm fully expecting him to be his own person and so to surprise me entirely with his personality and preferences, it seems weird to assume that he'll be more like a 'typical boy' than like his dad, my dad, my brother and all the other men he'll be spending a lot of time with in his early years, all of whom are more into reading than sport.

I work in a nursery and find the girls easier on many levels.
Better listening skills,Better attention span and able to pick things up quicker.
That's just my general observation.

Hate all the negative feedback about girls..
I have a dd she's brilliant and I really could not of wished for a better child.
Girls are always perceived as moody needy or over emotional which I feel is just another way society tries to keep females down.

almost all the really keen runners and exercisers I know are women (though I am not among them!)

You know what MC, me too! My female friends are crazy into their running and fitness and they're not just doing it for weight loss but actually really love it (baffling in itself!) yet I've never actually thought "women are more physical". Confirmation bias (of the failing to notice kind) in action!

Just because men are stronger physically doesn't mean that girls don't have the passion to run about, scoot up trees, be active, or wouldn't have if their clothes weren't so damned impractical..

I agree. I can't comment on girls, generally, but my ds's are hard work and very tricky sometimes.

Absolutely user. Your DD is lucky to have such a supportive mum.

@mrskoala my point was though that you can only base it on what you have and that just because a child appears easy does not mean that they are. Most would see DD as the easiest child in the world because they don’t see the stuff behind

And as we're allowed to talk about mice, I'm guessing we can talk about cats . My female cat is super adventurous, stays out for ages, comes back with all kinds of dirt and stories to tell, whilst my boy cat just sniffs about outside, thinks "nah, not for me" then plonks himself on my lap for a tummy rub and a nap!

Each are unique however in primary age - girls friendships seem to be more complicated as they seem to be more emotionally aware. Their games tend to be less inclusive where boys play group games that lots of people can be included

As a teacher I think it is all dependent on the child and not gender.

You mean 'social scientist' don't you?

Wash your mouth out 😁... geneticist with background in human development. How very dare you

I’d be very interested to see work in how serotonin is metabolised differently in males and females.

And I think you’ve misunderstood the context of may. ‘You may have a gun, but it has no bullets’ does not mean you have no gun. It means the statement that follows is qualified. It’s like a ‘but’ or an ‘atcthe same time’ or a ‘however.’

There may be sex based differences in brain structure. We do not currently understand how those differences translate to behaviour. it’s almost impossible to do quality research in the area because you can never control for societal influence. To do that you’d need to raise twins in totally gender neutral environments and you’d never get that past an ethics committee.

The actions of testosterone etc on the body can be measured quite easily. We currently don’t have the knowledge of the brain to say that x structural issue or different is the cause of x behaviour.

We need to be really careful with the pink brain blue brain shit - it’s used rather like evolutionary psychology, to justify some pretty unpleasant ideologies.