To expect exh to provide clothing?

[ilovemilton]

Exh is a twat. Read my old threads. The whole of Mumsnet tends to agree that he is a twat.

Shared care order. He pays £22 a week CM. I provide everything for DC.

Usually contact is from and to school, and I provide school uniforms. That itself drives me mad with the cost and unfairness. However, school holidays he collect and returns home.

Therefore, whatever clothes I send the children in, I provide. So you'd think the children would return in those clothes, no? The children return in clothing and shoes that are ripped, dirty, smelly and about 3 years too small. I can't bear to ever make the DC wear these, and I'm certainly not doing his laundry, so they are either returned or occasionally even thrown out, depending on the state. The order even states that clothing from one contact is to be returned at the next contact, so that's what I am doing. That means that they go from my house next time in clothes I provide, which are then kept again and the cycle continues.

I text him today to say that DC would be in their pjs when he arrives, and to bring fresh clothes for him to dress them in before he takes them. He replied that if I did that, I would be breaking the court order that states the DC are to be ready for contact at 10am, and we would return to court. I did remind him that the court order also says he is to return clothing, which he found hilarious.

I know this sounds petty, but I can't afford to keep providing new clothing and shoes that I never see again. Am I being silly to risk returning to court, or should I try and prove my point somehow, so that he provides things? And how?!

He may not run out of clothes for some time, it would depend on how many of the DC's cousins he is getting hand-me-downs from.

I admit I do find it hard to believe (Don't want to believe) that this can actually happen. What I've read the OP comes across as completely reasonable which is why I thought there must be more going on. However, i have never been through the system. I admit I most probably don't know enough to have made that call. I apologise and just hope I never have to face family courts/cafcass!!

Unfortunately ops experience is one I have heard many times before, and one I have experienced myself. ExH could start a decent sized children’s shop with all the things he has failed to return (brand new Clark’s shoes, new jumpers, a bike, suitcases, a scooter, a favourite comfort teddy....) but somehow if I try and make a stand about anything I am the unreasonable one.

Sorry if I've missed it, how old are your dc?

Thanks marriedwith. The only things I haven't told you is six more years of similar stuff.

DC are 9 and 12. 12yo went no contact after her last assault last summer.

Nevertwerk. Mine was "low level abuse is better than no contact".

Jesus wept.
What is he doing with all their clothes?
Total walker.
A friend of mine has to send washing powder to her ex h as he refuses to wash their child's clothes
Their child is a sweaty teenager and stays with his dad half the week.
Could you get a cheap t shirt and write my dad is a c**t on it , I'm sure he wouldn't want to keep that.
Only joking btw!

Oh he won't wash their clothes. On school days they return to school in dirty uniform. And you don't even want to think about what colour their socks are, when they make it back...

Could you have a word with school?
Explain the situation to them.
They might be able to ask parents for anonomoys donations of clothes and also it will highlight to them that their father is neglecting them.
They might keep a record of the days when your dc go to school dirty/ unkempt.
You have nothing to fear by doing this. Schools will be aware of the shitty games some parents play.

Do you think the 9 yr old will want to go no contact soon?

What is the point is asking for donations, or even buying loads of new clothes? They are literally being worn for the exchange of contact and then binned (or whatever he is doing with them), its playing into his game and not helping the children in any way.

Just wash whatever clothes they come in and send them back in them. Until the children are able to legally chose for themselves there is nothing more you can do. Dragging the school into the picture just complicates everything, teachers have to be called as witnesses in court at your expense, you can be accused of shaming the father to the community, it will be twisted against you.

My mother used to do this. My lovely foster mum would send me to see my birth mother in lovely dresses and smart shoes. I'd be returned in tatty, dirty, too small clothes. I assume mother dearest sold the good stuff so she could buy her fags and booze . In the end LFM had had enough of my horrible mother and I was sent to a children's home. Then got a new home were I was abused. Meanwhile, mother gets all the sympathy for how awful I am that I won't talk to her or let her see her GC and how awful it has been for her to have a child who was SA.

Courts need a kick up the arse and to get real.

9yo has tried not to attend many times. Back to court.

9yo isn't old enough to refuse contact, will need to be at least 12 probably 14 before a judge will accept their opinion. They will have to get used to a dead beat parent for a few more years yet.

I know. He tried to stop after exh had DS against that wall by his neck. Then he tried to stop after a miserable "holiday" staying at GP where exh refused him any contact with me and didn't speak to him all week. Then he tried at Christmas, based on how miserable the last one was - presents only for exh, no decorations, no dinner.
Each time returned to court. His latest stance is "I'm letting DD have her own way so you never will."

You gotta stay strong, your DC will survive and in a few years they will be able to break free. Try not play his games, pick your battles. There is light at the end of the tunnel I promise you.

Very odd behaviour! Are good clothes and shoes being ‘swapped’ with cousin’s old clothing because they know you can afford to clothe all the family.... Maybe that is why Dc is not allowed in the house - because they have already gone?

I just cannot understand how this is allows fto happen. The courts are choosing to allow children to be abused because it’s better than the father losing contact? Contact that he only wants so he can abuse them. What backwards thinking.

The courts are choosing to allow children to be abused because it’s better than the father losing contact?
Sadly its the 'legal process' that is causing the abuse. The Judge has no way to know who is telling the truth. When one parent has legal aid they can play the 'long game' because its not their money they are wasting and the other parent has no way to counter it. There is always another report that can be ordered, another person that can be asked to look into it and another delay ordered to see what happens. Sadly it can go on for the whole of the child's life and never be resolved.

The answer is for legal aid to be stopped and parents as human beings, not lawyers, to present their case directly to a Judge. Sadly their are still some people who can and do get legal aid ....

Sadly quack you will find that a lot of dad’s going to court to fight for “their rights” have forgotten about their children’s rights not to witness/experience abuse.

It all sounds awful. I’ve been used in games between my parents and lots of court meetings etc but as a parent it shocks me. Only nasty people act like this. Gathering evidence seems to be the only thing that can help in court. I’d take a picture of them with their dad so he can’t deny anything. Just snap one when you open the door so he can’t refuse.

FYI dont take a picture of them with their Dad, he can ring the police and things will get even worse for you.

Thing is quack that taking a photo would upset the children at an already tense time. It’s so hard when you are torn between protecting your children and standing up to a bully. And the bully knows that and exploits it.

Could you install cctv outside your front door so you’ve got video evidence of what they’re leaving in and being returned in without upsetting the children?

As a parent I find it so hard to understand someone acting that way but having worked with the public I can believe it, unfortunately some people would cut their nose off to spite their face rather than just getting along with their ex.

I had video evidence of me being assaulted and I was still dismissed as making it up. I don't think videos of this would be taken seriously.