To expect exh to provide clothing?

[ilovemilton]

Exh is a twat. Read my old threads. The whole of Mumsnet tends to agree that he is a twat.

Shared care order. He pays £22 a week CM. I provide everything for DC.

Usually contact is from and to school, and I provide school uniforms. That itself drives me mad with the cost and unfairness. However, school holidays he collect and returns home.

Therefore, whatever clothes I send the children in, I provide. So you'd think the children would return in those clothes, no? The children return in clothing and shoes that are ripped, dirty, smelly and about 3 years too small. I can't bear to ever make the DC wear these, and I'm certainly not doing his laundry, so they are either returned or occasionally even thrown out, depending on the state. The order even states that clothing from one contact is to be returned at the next contact, so that's what I am doing. That means that they go from my house next time in clothes I provide, which are then kept again and the cycle continues.

I text him today to say that DC would be in their pjs when he arrives, and to bring fresh clothes for him to dress them in before he takes them. He replied that if I did that, I would be breaking the court order that states the DC are to be ready for contact at 10am, and we would return to court. I did remind him that the court order also says he is to return clothing, which he found hilarious.

I know this sounds petty, but I can't afford to keep providing new clothing and shoes that I never see again. Am I being silly to risk returning to court, or should I try and prove my point somehow, so that he provides things? And how?!

Agree with the previous poster.

He can't be on legal aid unless he is a victim of domestic violence. It doesn't exist anymore.

Dh's ex used to do this. We'd pick ds up from school in his uniform, then return him on Sunday evening in own clothes we'd bought plus uniform washed and dried. Nothing EVER came back the following week. We'd go out on Sunday's before drop-off, so we had to dress him decently. We always stopped short of asking him to change, but we did end up asking him to put on his school shoes before running in, which was bad enough. The courts certainly don't pay things like this any attention. We got the impression that they assumed that nobody would purposely be so petty - how wrong they were!

This has been going on since before legal aid was taken away. He had his manager (his mate) write that he was a victim of DV and got it, despite all through our case the judge declaring there had never been any DV, as I was alleging. He never once mentioned this in court.

We then have a twelve month review period tagged on to every order, "to protect my client when mother breaks the order again", which we never make it to the end of before returning to court for some crap.

This thread makes me angry and sad. I'm not a horrible person but I hope a truckload of pain to falls on this so-called father.

I know what you mean about the way the order is written.

Do cafcass still get involved at each hearing? How old are the dc now?

He's very controlling and DC are scared.

Do your dc actually want to visit their father?

I've not been through the court process but surely they don't keep reinforcing the father's rights if the children are frightened and don't want to go?

I agree, evidence evidence evidence, get charity shop stuff and document every time this happens. You need to email / WhatsApp the photos so you can show the times and dates to prove this us what they wear when they leave v what they wear when they return. Film it if your dc talk about not wanting to go or seeming upset when they return. Ask them about what they wear when they're at their fathers, and what happens to the clothes they were wearing, film it.

I wouldn't be sending dc back in I'll fitting or dirty clothes as it just means you're playing games as well at dc's expense. Just don't send them in a £30 outfit, send them in a £5 charity shop outfit (appreciate this also adds up).

I'm surprised how many people's ex's play these types of games.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this OP it sounds like a nightmare.

I feel your pain. I buy bundles of 2nd hand clothing to send my kids to their dads in, because anything nice never comes back again

Sorry OP that doesn't make sense. It's been going on since before legal aid was taken away but he was awarded it for DV? Each new application to court would need a new legal aid application. True victims of DV have had legal aid refused as they need evidence from doctors or legal documents showing someone has been charged with DV. A letter from his manager wouldn't be enough.

I'm truly confused.

No my solicitor doesn't quite understand it either but he has looked into it and that's definitely what happened.

Each return to court isn't a new application, because we never get a final order, there is always a review period. So he's still covered if we return within that time. They do it like that so he doesn't lose his legal aid, because it is so hard to get now.

Trying to look at this from the children's point of view, I would not agree to sending them in PJs, it's embarrassing for them and just as bad as him sending them in the stuff he does.
Neither would I agree with taking one child to his to collect their things, it's using the child as a pawn in a very damaging battle.
He's winding you up, and it's working. But by retaliating, you're just causing more pain for the children.
This is a no win situation. You need to behave impeccably as mother, rise above his shoddy behaviour and do NOT use the children by taking photos of them in his clothing to use against him. Eventually, they will be adults and the decisions you make now will impact their relationship with both parents. If they are made to feel like piggies in the middle, it won't matter who's the most to blame, it will affect your relationship with them eventually.
Then he will truly have won his stupid games.

@Bezm the problem is the op can no longer afford to buy and lose she's and clothes every time the DC go for contact which is exactly why he is doing it...

I agree that now she can start being better prepared and get flip flops/plimsolls and value/2nd hand clothing that fits for them to wear knowing it won't be returned. That is probably the "best" solution.

Went through this for ten years, its criminal how parents/lawyers abuse legal aid to cripple the other parent. Basically you only have one choice, to send them back to their father in exactly the same clothes as he sent them to you in. I am telling you, 2 mental breakdowns and a bankruptcy taught me their are NO other options.
And make sure you always have a witness present, or take a photograph, every time they go and come back.

You might hate it but the courts and their father have overruled you on this. Just wait until they are old enough to refuse to wear the clothes he forces them to, they will have to fight their own battles on this one.

Get some extremely cheap t shirts printed with ‘“My dads a wanker” on them. Claim your new boyfriend bought them. Send them in them every time.

Somehow you have clearly fallen foul of CAFCASS and Judge who think you have been unreasonable and are influencing the children against their father. In such a climate you will not achieve anything by making a stand as it will be interpreted as point scoring and 'bringing the children into adult disputes' - for your own and the children's well being you would be best to find a way round all his unbending behaviour - communicate as little as possible directly as it will only fuel his case but keep meticulous records of anything he sends to you. He probably knows its all only a matter of time and hence he feels his only way to fight his corner is to hold on to the control he has as he probably envisages the children will cease all contact when they are able. His sol will have told him that by secondary school children becoming increasingly awarded the right of self determination and cannot be dragged kicking and screaming to contact. The plimsol idea is a good one - when the children's other things are returned you can resume normal wardrobes and return to basics when he keeps stuff. I would always prevent anything expensive or valued going on contact when you have a parent who cant look after it. Try to minimise the amount of trauma this is causing you all as it is that which will keep him motivated and be played out in Court leading them to continue to micro-manage things because of this apparent pettiness.

So can you ask for cafcass to get involved with your concerns?

No. Cafcass think I've done enough damage to the DC by taking them away from him at such a young age. All the problems exh has with the DC not liking him are to do with what I tell them, not because of how he behaves. He's really sad that he no longer lives with his DC, and it's all my fault.

So Cafcass and the judge/courts are going against You?? I think there may be more going on than you think or are admitting to.

The best way to resolve this is to always return your children to him in the clothes they are wearing when they arrive. Simple.

To read the whole thread but have dealt with a similar ex (although yours sounds like a few levels up!). I would suggest time stamped photos for a few weeks - one of them going to him, one as they are dropped back. That way you will be able,to clearly show a court that he is breaking the Order and that he is clearly engaging in behaviour which is having an impact on your household (and therefore the children)financially.

I am sorry you are going through this. Few people understand just how awful it is.

I have something similar but not as bad.

I buy bundles of eBay clothes and get prepared to lose some.

I have to really police shoes and coats though.

Marriedwithchildren5, so you do not believe that a government agency could have got the situation wrong?

A significant problem is that the truth is assumed to be somewhere in the middle, which only works if you have two reasonable, or unreasonable parents. If one is reasonable and telling the truth, or even minimising some things as to not sound unreasonable, and the other is unreasonable and fabricating lies, then the truth will not be in the middle at all.

I couldn't buy new clothes for the DC every week, we wouldn't have enough for food, dinner money, childcare/playscheme.

marriedwith5 unfortunately the family court system is still inherently misogynistic. My experience is that even with written evidence from psychologists as to how abusive my ex was they dismissed it as “middle class abuse” (judges words) because ex is well paid and well spoken

YANBU. Cheap charity clothes/primark or tell friends your situation and do a general shout out for hand me downs. He’s an asshole. Cheap cheap flip flops. At some point he will run out of too small ripped clothes surely?