To expect exh to provide clothing?

[ilovemilton]

Exh is a twat. Read my old threads. The whole of Mumsnet tends to agree that he is a twat.

Shared care order. He pays £22 a week CM. I provide everything for DC.

Usually contact is from and to school, and I provide school uniforms. That itself drives me mad with the cost and unfairness. However, school holidays he collect and returns home.

Therefore, whatever clothes I send the children in, I provide. So you'd think the children would return in those clothes, no? The children return in clothing and shoes that are ripped, dirty, smelly and about 3 years too small. I can't bear to ever make the DC wear these, and I'm certainly not doing his laundry, so they are either returned or occasionally even thrown out, depending on the state. The order even states that clothing from one contact is to be returned at the next contact, so that's what I am doing. That means that they go from my house next time in clothes I provide, which are then kept again and the cycle continues.

I text him today to say that DC would be in their pjs when he arrives, and to bring fresh clothes for him to dress them in before he takes them. He replied that if I did that, I would be breaking the court order that states the DC are to be ready for contact at 10am, and we would return to court. I did remind him that the court order also says he is to return clothing, which he found hilarious.

I know this sounds petty, but I can't afford to keep providing new clothing and shoes that I never see again. Am I being silly to risk returning to court, or should I try and prove my point somehow, so that he provides things? And how?!

I feel I am being just as abusive sending them back in the clothes he sends.

I would definitely start documenting, photos splus a list of clothes, shop they were bought from and cost. Keep receipts

Also try women's aid. Even if you can't get legal aid they should be able to help you find a solicitor that is experienced with abusive situations

you are right, he is a massive twat

What a wanker, yes just provide the cheapest clothes for him, plimsoles, or Poundshop shop shoes. He is neglecting them. Definitely seek legal advice. Putting kids in clothes that are way too small is unaccptable.

No, you're not being abusive OP. I think you have done the right thing giving a choice.

If they go in jammies, that's on him, not you.

But you must stick to it. Don't cave or he will have won.

BUT whatever they come back in even if it’s to small is dress them in it next time to go back in and just keep doing that

Poor kids. I can't imagine how they must feel caught up in the middle of this, being scared of their dad and dressed in rags by him. Go back to court OP with photos and evidence.

Yep. He's a twat.

Can you send them back in the clothes he sent back last time?

What an arsehole. What's he doing with all the clothes?!?!

OP it’s not abusive dressing them in clothes too small.

Unfortunately, like you have said you can’t afford to keep sending them in new clothes all the time so what is your other option really ? You have ran out of old clothes to dress them in as he’s kept them all...

Just keep getting evidence so when he does take you back you can explain. Take pictures.

Send them in cheap comfortable clean clothing and plimsolls. Document what clothing they leave and return in.

You spend £30 on an outfit?

I know he is wrong but I would just send them in cheap clothes, you can buy a outfit for £10 or less from primark, Asda or a charity shop. My kids have plenty of old clothes that I could send them to their dads in (which I do). If he doesn’t send them home in the same clothes tell him you will be taking photos of what they are coming home in as evidence for court.

I think you need to try not to make a huge deal about it as the kids will pick up on this and it will effect them more ,I know it’s not easy. I went through a stage with ex where the kids were coming home stinking of smoke and being fed complete rubbish, I had to bath them and wash their clothes as soon as they got in. Their dad pays hardly anything towards them, doesn’t buy them clothes but he does see them which is something.

That sounds rubbish I think I might try a charity shop haul for next time they are away? But YANBU at all to be frustrated

Please don't take this out on your poor kids they're stuck in the middle here.

Tell your ex you're taking photographs when they go and when they come home again as you're sick of him not bringing back clothes and if it continues then call his
Bluff that you'll take him back to court for failing to keep up with his end of the deal.

Your ex is an arse, not surprised you left him!

Lovemusic - I think OP has more than one DC.

But even £10 per child per week on clothes that will never be seen again is not sustainable!!

Are you sure he would get legal aid now? It's only available for family disputes in very limited circumstances.

I feel for you OP. Had this with my ex.

I gave him written notice of what dd was dressed in for a few weeks in the court ordered contact book. That didn't work.

So eventually I resorted to dressing her in whatever shit he had sent her home in last time. She hated it and I felt awful. But it was worth it in the long run as it meant we had nice clothes at home. I couldn't afford to replace an outfit every 2 weeks.

He threatened court and social services as I was dressing her in old, ill fitting clothes. I pointed out they were HIS clothes not mine and the part of our court order that referred to returning each others stuff.

Dd eventually got used to it and knew as soon as she was at his she would be changed into the fancy designer clothes he had for her there.

It is tough I know. But you do need to be firm or you will have this forever. I also had it with her pushchair, numerous cups, over nappies and wipes.

He's a twat!

My ex has clothes for our DS at his, so say for today for an example, our son will leave in his clothes and will return in his pj's ready for bed Sunday night. I only pack a pair of pj's for DS's return, his dad has everything DS needs at his house.

The odd time ex might ask me prior if there's something he doesn't have or it's a size too big and I'm happy to pack that along. Sometimes he'll even wash the clothes he came in and packs them back

I know what you mean though, it's not on and I'd feel the same about having to send my son in ripped clothes too small/too big and would think " why should I be paying for new clothes knowing I won't get them back?" But then how could I not?

A tough one, but he's already going against the order too. What a dick

This is quite a common thing I have learnt from my solicitor. My husbands ex sends their dc in dirty, too small clothing for contact and has done for years. They never have a coat on. They say that they only wear these clothes when they come to see daddy. We just dress them in something nice when they're here and then they go back in what they came in. But they have noticed and get upset. It does affect them. We give it as little attention as possible and say it's not your fault. They will get to an age where they make a decision about it all themselves.

I would send them in what they came back in, but clean and keep a diary of whats happening, take photos. Send a polite email asking not to do this if they are not suitably clothed i.e. no shoes.

At the end of the day make sure they've got something on their feet, it's clean and they're warm. Their welfare is paramount.

See it for what it is - deliberate attempt to goad you and if he wants to take you to court, let him, but you'll be able to explain and have evidence of being reasonable and putting their care first. The courts don't like parents who take the piss out the system and compromise children having a stable environment.

He's awful I would take photos and document, do not engage at all!!! Have them ready in the old clothes or pjs every time

Send them back in the clothes he gives them. They have all your nice stuff there to change into anyway

Yanbu, but it looks like you will need be meticulous about recording what he's stealing from your children ready for when he next tries to take you to court. Do you collect the children from his house? If so can you take photos of the children as they leave his house, every time?

Probably worth planning ahead so that you have a stockpile of cheap supermarket/sales/second hand clothing /plimsolls to send them in. It isn't nice for the children, but it's much worse when they don't have adequate shoes, costs, school uniform etc because their father has taken them.

I'm sure he will document what the DC are sent in hence why you need photo evidence that you are only using the clothes he is sending them in.

He is going to game play forever, I think you need to open and honest with the DC that you understand they are too frightened to ask for their clothes to bring back and that Daddy is being unkind but unfortunately you can't afford to do things differently at the moment.

The £30 includes shoes too. He collects them and walks home so I have to send shoes. But he brings them back in a taxi in slippers, flip flops or barefoot.

Honestly I would send them out barefoot or whatever he returned them in last time. Offer to call a cab or keep them longer whilst he collects their shoes.

I don't have any that got anymore they went in the bin last night, they're all at your house. I would actually record this conversation... Shane you don't have anyone who could film it!

I agree with everyone.
1 explain it to the DCs it's not their fault
2 send them back in what they came in, as per the order
3 document what they came in and what they went in
4 if he gets round this in any way (eg the shoes thing you just described) have a cheap, cheap stock of 99p flip flops or £2 shoes, 99p tops etc and send them in those. At least you'll only be losing a fiver occasionally.
But I think it is important to explain to the DCs this isn't their fault.
Did you say how old they are? Very soon their clothes will matter more to them and they won't tolerate leaving stuff behind.

In case he has the stupidity to go back to court over this, set up a paper trail with photos etc (perhaps a diary which should include what the children are saying to you and recording what's gone and hasn't been returned) and go to Women's Aid.

You have to send them back in the clothes he sends them home in.....end of. I know it doesn't sit well with you OP but this is the way he gets to you and he knows it.

This.

It's what the court has ordered, isn't it?

Your poor children. I'm so sorry.

Keep documenting what he's done, so that if and when he takes you back to court you can show them what's happening.

My ex did this, absolutely broke me providing stuff. Kept 50 pound Clark's school shoes and sent them in shoe zone trainers ( nothing wrong with shoe zone but get my point ) kept my uniform and sent them to school in his old /small uniform. Kept clothes from next and top end shops in holidays ( I'm not well off at all on sick but not the point ) sent him home in pants that were that small left imprints on them and clothes his girlfriends kids have grown out off.
So I started sending them in what I call scruffies ( joggers/tshirt and cheap pumps ) and went to school in plain jumpers.
I got a letter from him complaining they look like tramps so he received the force of my solicitor. Dickhead stopped doing it.
Might have to play dirty and send up in cheaper stuff so he gets bored.
Go to charity shop. As long as they are clean play him at his own stupid game. Control issues.
It is breaking the court order but let's face it worth about as much as bog roll they are to men like ours who don't give a shit !
Good luck