To expect exh to provide clothing?

[ilovemilton]

Exh is a twat. Read my old threads. The whole of Mumsnet tends to agree that he is a twat.

Shared care order. He pays £22 a week CM. I provide everything for DC.

Usually contact is from and to school, and I provide school uniforms. That itself drives me mad with the cost and unfairness. However, school holidays he collect and returns home.

Therefore, whatever clothes I send the children in, I provide. So you'd think the children would return in those clothes, no? The children return in clothing and shoes that are ripped, dirty, smelly and about 3 years too small. I can't bear to ever make the DC wear these, and I'm certainly not doing his laundry, so they are either returned or occasionally even thrown out, depending on the state. The order even states that clothing from one contact is to be returned at the next contact, so that's what I am doing. That means that they go from my house next time in clothes I provide, which are then kept again and the cycle continues.

I text him today to say that DC would be in their pjs when he arrives, and to bring fresh clothes for him to dress them in before he takes them. He replied that if I did that, I would be breaking the court order that states the DC are to be ready for contact at 10am, and we would return to court. I did remind him that the court order also says he is to return clothing, which he found hilarious.

I know this sounds petty, but I can't afford to keep providing new clothing and shoes that I never see again. Am I being silly to risk returning to court, or should I try and prove my point somehow, so that he provides things? And how?!

If he has already taken you back to court for throwing away a t shirt then why have you done it again? You need to send them to him in exactly then outfit they were returned to you in, if that means no shoes then point that out to him. When he returns them with No shoes, have you not documented this as he threatens you with Court so often.

This is just so sad that parents can treat their children in this way - not you, OP, but the dad.
I hope all his friends and family realise what an arse he is. Until the people close to twats like this start calling them out, they will continue to think they're reasonable.

I can only reiterate what other posters have said about documenting the abuse, because that's what it is really.

Fucking hell this is just awful. Your poor, poor children. And you.

I'm sure posters who have been through it themselves are right, but I totally understand why you can't bring yourself to play the same games as him. Someone has to think of your dc

I feel your pain op and YANBU.

My ex is mostly ok but items of clothing I BUY get left at his all the time. So my dc can't wear them when with me (12 days out of 14) and I need to buy more. It drives me fucking nuts. But at least I know X isn't being malicious. Just incompetent.

I feel really sad for your dc.

Used to happen to us as well. DC hated it and knew he was playing games. One DC used to try to hide clothes and bring them back but he'd stop her and she was frightened of his temper. We lost everything including coats which the DC would watch him throw in the bin. In the end I bought them cheap white T shirt and black joggers and pumps and nothing else to go with. Not even toothbrushes.

He screeched by text and solicitor letter that I had to provide clothing but as I had kept meticulous diary and photos of each handover he didn't get away with it. It was pointed out to him that the DC were not guests but should have their own things at his house that he should provide so they were not living out of a suitcase.
Immaterial now because as soon as Cafcass would listen both DC refused to go and neither have any contact at all.

He collected them. They were still in their pjs. When asked where the clothes were that I had asked him to bring, he shouted about the order saying DC need to be ready when he comes, me being ordered to provide clothing and walked off saying we will be back in court.

Why does he collect and drop off - if you took control of collection you could wait at his house whilst you did an inventory of the clothes and ask him to go back in and get whats missing. No LA is going to want to issue care proceedings on your children for this sort of issue but yes the Court will consider this a massive waste of time adjudicating on this sort of behaviour. Try not to let him see how much it gets to you as that is his reward. Document all your attempts to provide reasonable solutions to the problem so that if he does needlessly take you back to Court because it doesn't cost him anything you can prove to a judge he is deliberately intransigent and vexatious.

He does transport ordered by the court as when I do it, I "interfere with contact too much."

I’d have dressed them this time, photographed it, and then if not returned I’d start invoicing him for every piece withheld. For next time I’d be doing what a PP’s friend did, just plain white tshirt, joggers and plimsolls, and invoicing for everything withheld.

Once you’ve done this for a few months and built up the picture and evidence, then back to court and get it sorted once and for all.

My kids mum is a bit of a pain, nowhere near what you're describing though OP.

Even so it's enough trouble getting clothes back and forth, so wherever possible I send the kids back to her in whatever she sent them to mine wearing, and try to make sure I don't send them to her in anything decent in case it doesn't come back.

what a dickhead, I'm not sure what the solution is though that won't be bad for your kids other than take him to court, its a shame that courts time would be wasted on this kind of stuff though because of petty arseholes (not you obviously)

I understand my exh used to do this, or would send say one sock of a pair

It's hard is t it to collect evidence without it affecting the kids. How about photographing everything before you return it to him?

I think that you will have to resort to eBay bundles/carboots.

I still have separate clothes for the kids to go to his as they still sometimes don't come back/damaged etc

I've documented it all and photographed before. Court say he's doing his best on his limited income once he's paid maintenance. Struggles to feed himself some weeks because of all he has to buy for the kids (still has all the latest gadgets and xbox games though...)

For those that asked, the court order instructs me to return clothing he bought next time the children attend contact, not to send them in it. It says children are to be ready to attend contact in suitable clothing. So basically it means I have to provide everything.

How depressing to find there are sch arseholes in the world. I'm so sorry OP.

Get the cheap as chips stuff and send them in that. I know that goes against all your instincts, but he'll eventually get bored with throwing plimsoles in the bin.

Just stick with the line "I have nothing else for them to wear as he hasn't the clothing I sent them previously. It's all I can afford"

I think he may be selling the clothes at a car boot or ebay if he is that poor OP. Just a thought. He must be doing something with them. l am given to think this because where is he getting the terrible clothes from he sends the DC home in?

Is this where he gets the money from for his xbox games/gadgets . I think you should look on the bright side ...thank God you got rid of the childish idiot.

what an arsehole

Go to Asda or primark get cheap t shirts (£1.50) joggers or leggings (£2-4) plimsols (£2-3) and much as it goes against the grain send them back in the clothes they come home in, he will stop as long as you are consistent and don't react or comment on his games experience of dealing with a grade a wanker

I understand the frustration, and you absolutely shouldn't have to, but if its 4 times a month, I'd buy them cheap stuff from primark. You can get a set of clothes for £5-7, get a stack of £2.50 dapps/plimsols, and send them in those.
If you've got 2 DC that should total up to a bit under the £22 he pays.

When he doesn't return the clothes, send him a message before he'll be leaving saying 'you've not returned DC's clothes from last time, bring them with you please and we can swap them back' if he doesn't bring them then when he asks for his back just say 'I'll keep hold of them until you've brought theirs back then we know we've got the right amount of clothes at each house'.
Try not to acknowledge the state of the clothes, he clearly can see himself and if he knows its working trying to annoy you with it he's likely to do it more.

Hopefully the too small shoes he's sending back will run out soon if he doesn't end up swapping yours back for his so then they shouldn't have to wear them anymore at least too.

What a horror he is.

At3 the children old enough for you to explain that you are sending them back in the clothes he dropped them off in.
He will get them changed when they get there into the clothes he has of yours.

They are hand me downs from cousins the same or younger than DC.

Ahhh right.... so are the whole family colluding with him to do this OP? If so then there is really nothing for you to do except send the children back in the clothes he sends them home in l am afraid. He will have a lot of stock to be able to do this with, also are they having your DCS clothes to use on their own DC ? If so then they are scum. He really is a work of art. He sounds a horrible horrible man. I am so glad you are not with him anymore.

Me too