To expect exh to provide clothing?

[ilovemilton]

Exh is a twat. Read my old threads. The whole of Mumsnet tends to agree that he is a twat.

Shared care order. He pays £22 a week CM. I provide everything for DC.

Usually contact is from and to school, and I provide school uniforms. That itself drives me mad with the cost and unfairness. However, school holidays he collect and returns home.

Therefore, whatever clothes I send the children in, I provide. So you'd think the children would return in those clothes, no? The children return in clothing and shoes that are ripped, dirty, smelly and about 3 years too small. I can't bear to ever make the DC wear these, and I'm certainly not doing his laundry, so they are either returned or occasionally even thrown out, depending on the state. The order even states that clothing from one contact is to be returned at the next contact, so that's what I am doing. That means that they go from my house next time in clothes I provide, which are then kept again and the cycle continues.

I text him today to say that DC would be in their pjs when he arrives, and to bring fresh clothes for him to dress them in before he takes them. He replied that if I did that, I would be breaking the court order that states the DC are to be ready for contact at 10am, and we would return to court. I did remind him that the court order also says he is to return clothing, which he found hilarious.

I know this sounds petty, but I can't afford to keep providing new clothing and shoes that I never see again. Am I being silly to risk returning to court, or should I try and prove my point somehow, so that he provides things? And how?!

Just get some clothes/shoes from a charity shop to send them in each time.

Have a chat with Women's Aid, or Rights of Women.
This abusive prick is going to get worse, not better. His behaviour shows he doesn't mind causing the DC distress or pain if it's a way of punishing you. Therefore he is a danger to them. A good lawyer who understands abusive men and how to frustrate them legally should be able to help you because, ideally, you want him cut out of your lives as much as possible, before he comes up with another way to hurt the DC that does them even more damage. And yes, keep documenting everything.

Good advice from SGB - the more you post, the clearer it becomes that he will deliberately upset the children to get at you. Women’s Aid will have dealt with this before.

Something needs to be done. Those poor children. And I don’t give a fuck what the courts say about him being broke, that doesn’t explain why all the clothes that you have bought have disappeared and in their place is scruffy crap. Explain that you cannot afford it. Document everything you send them in and take pictures of what is returned and over time ask why none of the clothes you sent have resurfaced. The courts are a joke if they allow a bully to do this to his children. What a twat.

I also agree with contacting women’s aid. I don’t know much about them but plenty of posters have pointed out that they should Gould be able to help and probably have seen this before.

You need to keep cheap throw away clothes.

I agree take photos of everything fir evidence if he does go to court.

Make a list of all items you send and keep a copy. Attach a letter explaining you expect all these items to be returned by (set date). Keep a log of what comes back and when. I would also list size and price of each item making it clear the cash is expected for any missing items. Once you have a log, could you get a solicitor's letter? I'd be tempted to refuse overnights until he stops breaching caught order (but you'll need legal advice).

Sadly, putting dc in crap clothes is putting them in the middle so you can't punish him through them (no matter how tempting).

Oh good grief, why do they do this?

I live overseas & the numpty ex visits & has a week in a hotel with the kids 3x a week, plus they have 2 longer stays with him in the UK.

As the kids are all growing fast, I use it as an opportunity to have a clear out of outgrown/tatty clothes several times a year. I send 'em with 3 outfits each that I can happily wave off.

He chunters about having to do washing because there isn't enough for a week...

Doing it weekly must be unbearable. I agree with PPs that only way is to send them every time in whatever crap they came home in last time. He can hardly claim these clothes are unacceptable given he was the one to provide them.

It does get easier as they get older & start to push back against him 'losing' their nice gear. Mine are now fully on-board with not taking anything they like to their dad's - they are as pissed as I am about next seeing it 3 months later when it's outgrown .

3x a year! Doh.

he brings them back in a taxi in slippers, flip flops or barefoot.
"Oh no! You've forgotten your shoes children! Right Mr Taxi Driver, silly children, you'd better take the children and their dad back to (Ex's address). Don't worry I'll still be here when you all get back"

I did take DD back to his house to collect some of her things he had kept once. He held the door so she couldn't even enter and flatly refused.

Can you buy old clothing on Facebook groups for this purpose? I often see on eBay / Facebook etc bin bags of old clothes being sold for £5 or so. Keep the decent stuff for yourself and send the less nice stuff to ExP. Annoying as it is, it matters less if you paid pennies for it, and your children won't suffer by being in outgrown clothes.

This sort of thing: rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F282900794214

Or something like this: www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1564369043602366

For a fiver, you've got 9 outfits.... less than a pound each. Hopefully, once ExP sees you don't care, he loses the upper hand and incentive to play silly games.

I am shocked about the courts stance on this OP. As someone also struggling with an abusive ex and their attitude towards the children.m, It's a bit disheartening to see your Ex partner be allowed to treat the children in this way and it be sanctioned by the court.

I have this, it's a race to the bottom. But there isn't a choice, you are forced to behave similarly or he gets away with it.
I still get the odd text to my child from ExH which goes... Can you bring your [expensive specialist sport item] to which I'll rant at the kids 'No can you hell! It isn't his property and I'll never see it again. If he wants to indulge in [expensive sport] he can do it at his expense'
The other day my DD asked if she could take some of her pyjamas to her Dads house. These things are cheap, I could spare them, but... Why should I fund clothing deficiencies in his house? To do so enables him to get away with not bothering to provide. He isn't skint. So I told her no.
This means I can't genuinely buy things 'for the kids' - they have to remain my property, which is annoying. I also try not to send them with coats, or only really cheap coats, because I'll not see them again.

Argggh

Ooh, and my favourite ... Friday morning text to kids, as they will be going to see him after school......'Can you bring a couple of shirts and trousers for school, there aren't many here?'
I buy all the uniform, so my answer was 'if you don't have enough uniform at your house I suggest you BUY SOME not help yourself to stuff I've bought leaving ME short and having to buy some more.

My child often returns from his Dad's in the same school shirt and trousers he left my house in, sometimes several days before. It's plain it's been worn continuously all that time. It's gross.

He is a twat.
Whatever they come home in, wash and send them back in it.

Grim, just grim

It's just awful what this parents will do to punish their exes with zero regard for the DC welfare

send them i the clothes he sends back in tell the court you cant afford to clothes kids at two houses if he cant be cooperative ans share the clothes.

i must say i find it strange how ridged your order is. how can they say suitable clothed to you and not him ?

There are so many parts of the order that are like this. Basically, he convinced the courts from day one that o am a terrible mother that will do anything to disrupt contact, and they decide on every point from that angle.

I struggle to understand this. This can’t be good for the children’s well-being. I feel for you OP.

He won't be getting legal aid for representation at court. There hasn't been legal aid for family law representation for years, unless that person has been a victim of domestic violence.

It's horrible what you're all going through though. I feel for you.

Again: you need a lawyer who specialises in dealing with abusive men. There will be ways to fuck this man up, to wear him out and make him spend all his money trying to punish you in court. Please get advice from the people who are used to pricks like him and know a lot of ways to help you defend yourself and your kids. You need the support and help of a group which exists to protect women and children from abusive 'fathers'.