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AIBU?

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To ask all Irish women to please show solidarity today?

349 replies

RottenTomatoes959 · 29/03/2018 08:20

Please join the rallies in support of the victim in belfast today,theres rallies in Dublin belfast and cork. Enough is enough and we can not take this one lying down. Show support to the brave young woman and lets not have this trial be in vain.
Something has to change.

OP posts:
Lethaldrizzle · 29/03/2018 12:02

I'm always amazed at how the families stand by these men. Guilty or not guilty, I'm not sure i could stand by my son if he'd done some thing like this

MikeWyzowski · 29/03/2018 12:05

they were found not guilty so that is the result of the judicial system whatever the public thoughts on it. I thought this following message which is doing the rounds in Facebook is good:

On the Belfast rape trial: I read and listened to the print and broadcast media reports daily to try and be as informed as possible. No-one other than those on the jury can know the interpretations and rationale underpinning acquittals and/or not guilty verdicts. What we can all know as fact though, are the messages these men sent to each other, the language they used, the attitude they displayed, the behaviour they described. Toward this woman. Toward women in general. These are not open to debate, these are fact, admitted by the defendants in court. All of it was outrageous. All of it was disgraceful. All of it was absolutely, inarguably unacceptable. It was not immaturity, or drunkenness, or ‘the lads’. It was abuse. It was misogyny. It was the inverse of being a man.

As a father, as a brother, as a son, most simply as a man, I object. I refuse. I condemn. You may have lost a decision in court today young woman, but you have shown these men to the world. Watching a 2017 documentary on Dr Dre & Jimmy Iovine, Dre described his assault on Dee Barnes in 1991 as ‘a major blemish on who I am as a man’. Paddy Jackson, Stuart Olding, Blaine McIlroy, Rory Harrison, you are blemished, you are stained. How you treated this woman will follow you, as it should. You owe her, her family, your family, and yourselves, the work that will be needed to fade this stain. You will never be rid of it, but you could, if you have the courage to, lessen it. Lessen it in yourselves, lessen it in other men. It will take you a lifetime. As it should.

To women; our family, our friends, or strangers… we are listening. We will be better. We will stand up and speak out. We will see you, and hear you, and work to protect you when other men threaten you. Keep pushing us, keep waking us. We love you, as women, as people. We can often be weak, and afraid, but we are working to be stronger, to be your equal.

By David O'Donovan

RottenTomatoes959 · 29/03/2018 12:06

Agreed snowy! She was on trial not the men,ive heard more than enough of "boys will be boys" or "she's a little slut anyway". The attitudes need to change.
It may not change the result in court Shatners but publin opinion on this type of behaviour needs to change. It may save the next poor girl.

OP posts:
Dulra · 29/03/2018 12:06

The case was reported on extensively across Irish media and from the daily court reports I heard which were very hard to listen to at times I absolutely believe her but I also know why they were found not guilty. It is extremely hard to prove rape in these circumstances as in effectively "date rape". There were also 4 people against 1. It just boiled down to who to believe the evidence was not robust enough. I actually feel incredibly sorry for the jury it was an 8 week trial and a very harrowing one and I am sure they also believe her on some level but couldn't convict beyond all reasonable doubt.

I am very glad to hear there are marches of support today and it is very much needed because after seeing what this woman went through I do not think I would be strong enough to have gone to trial if the same happened to me and I am sure there are many women that feel that way. I have 3 young daughters and I despair of the world they are growing up in. What is positive though is that although they were found not guilty public opinion is absolutely disgusted by them and their behaviour and it has started a conversation about how despicable their treatment of women is. The IRFU have issued a statement that the players concerned are still suspended until they review their behaviour and I would be very surprised if they took them back. I think they are unlikely to but more likely to say their behaviour at this party is not the type of behaviour they want to condone and it is not the standard they accept for someone to wear an Irish rugby jersey. If this happens I think it would be a positive message to send to men that this kind of behaviour is not acceptable and will not be tolerated and you will be judged

LaurieMarlow · 29/03/2018 12:06

Good article here

feministire.com/2018/03/29/how-can-we-ask-women-to-report-rape-after-belfast/

Trinity66 · 29/03/2018 12:09

What time is the Cork one on at?

BlueSapp · 29/03/2018 12:11

Durla I hope that this is the case, Ulster and Ireland Rugby should be trying very hard to terminate their contracts. At least then there might be some remorse from PJ because at the minute he and his family are coming across as the scum of the earth with the nonchalant stance they have taken.

Trinity66 · 29/03/2018 12:14

BlueSapp I hope so too, at the very least we know beyond a reasonable doubt that PJ and co are disrespectful pigs who seem to view womens as play things rather than human beings

ShatnersWig · 29/03/2018 12:15

Snowy Oh I totally and utterly agree with changing attitudes. If I knew any of those men I would want absolutely nothing to do with them ever again. They are vile and despicable.

But I wonder how much can actually be done to improve that process in the COURTS.

OrangeCrush19 · 29/03/2018 12:18

Same as a PP - I have a friend who was on the jury at a rape trial a few years ago. He said he absolutely believed the accuser but there wasn’t enough evidence to convict the accused. Accuser was a young girl (@16 I think) - his daughter had been raped at the same age years before. The police advised the family not to press charges as there wasn’t enough evidence.

Can’t imagine what that poor woman is going through today.

snowy1982 · 29/03/2018 12:20

@shatnerswig, I don’t know, hopefully some greater minds will, but I imagine starting by not passing a woman’s knickers around the court room. I understand they are evidence, but I think showing a photo is more than sufficient, there is (IMO) something very gratuitous in passing around the actual stained garments

EightdaysaweekIloveu · 29/03/2018 12:27

'*Today 10:45 Stillscreaming

This happened in the UK

I think that's another really intresting point; the invisibility of NI women to other British women. This victim is discussed by Irish women, sent flowers by Irish women and is having the verdict protested by Irish women.*

This.

They showed no respect for her, treated her like a piece of meat, left her bruised and bleeding and then boosted about it on a WhatsApp group by calling her loose, merry-go-round, spit-roasting, etc. this was said in court.

Jacksons statement showed no remorse in the way she was treated, he acted like the victim.

EightdaysaweekIloveu · 29/03/2018 12:29

I agree with you BlueSapp, they did not come across well. What have they thought his sister?

Amanduh · 29/03/2018 12:34

The way rape trials are conducted makes me sick. The victim on trial, their sexual history and clothing discussed as if it is relevant, and their ‘unladylike’ behaviour, ie flirting and drinking. Makes me so ANGRY. Then the ‘lads being lads’ general discussion. A sign of the inequality and what women will always have to deal with

Amanduh · 29/03/2018 12:35

Also, I know and have seen a a LOT of British women suppoeting, protesting and discussing.

BlueSapp · 29/03/2018 12:39

This a northern Ireland both Irish and British interest lie here so its only right that people in southern Ireland stand up with this girl

FencingFightingTorture35 · 29/03/2018 12:40

This is so incredibly distressing. I hope she has a lot of support and love to prop her up.

Trinity66 · 29/03/2018 12:44

This a northern Ireland both Irish and British interest lie here so its only right that people in southern Ireland stand up with this girl

Absolutely, especially since the some of the men actually played Rugby for the Irish team as well.

Lizzie48 · 29/03/2018 12:47

Things really don't get better, do they? Attitudes are so ingrained. It's cool for 'boys to be boys' but girls need to behave nicely. It's very depressing for me, as I'm bringing up 2 girls.

RosaDeZoett · 29/03/2018 12:58

As with others, I found this verdict extremely distressing. What do we tell our daughters? As a pp has said, rape and abuse of young girls and women is legal. I will tell my daughter that, and tell her she needs to be vigilant always, and protect herself, by whatever means necessary. Because if this happens to her, the law will not be on her side, and other people won't believe her.
As another pp said, they left her bruised and bleeding and then bragged about it. They actually bragged about it. If my son behaved in that manner I would disown him.

MerryShitmas · 29/03/2018 13:02

I'm not surprised but I'm horrified.

lostjanni · 29/03/2018 13:06

But if they were found innocent why are people protesting?
The jury with all the facts made an unbiased decision that they were Innocent.

lostjanni · 29/03/2018 13:09

@4Funnels. I agree, why are we meant to march in solidarity when it's not proven what these men did.

BlueSapp · 29/03/2018 13:10

This reply has been deleted

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MerryShitmas · 29/03/2018 13:11

RosaDeZoett
Not quite what you asked but as someone who has experience of being a child (13, 14 at trial) rape victim... but I think if my DD is ever raped... I would have to tell her not to report, barring drastic change. I don't think I
Have the bravery to put her what I went through with nothing but hope the system is better.
The trial fucked me up more than the rape itself did, honestly.
I want my dd to protect herself, ill encourage her to be vigilant and not trust anyone, teach her about date rape drugs, teach her self defence etc. but I'm not sure if I could be brave enough to do what my mum did - she was raped and horribly let down by the system, and she still told me to report hoping for change (25yrs between our cases) It wasn't to be but I desperately hope that if we fight hard enough, for long enough, even in little ways (like correcting rape myths and myths surrounding consent) maybe in 20yrs women won't have to go through what I did, anymore.

I've some experience albeit not a wealth of it, in law and I understand why rapes are harder to convict as the question isn't the act (sex) it's consent. If you're murdered nobody has to prove that you consented to it, just who did it. Same with robberies, drugs... so I get it, I do.
But I also think that...
showing a jury a victims knickers is a cuntish thing to do and unnecessary (unless relevant to show eg, blood, but even then probably not needed) and clothing.
Sexual history isn't relevant at all.
Someone "kissing someone" isn't relevant at all either. Unless In the case of eg CCTV showing x kissed y at 8pm but x denies meeting y until midnight, iykwim.
There's so much shit I'd love to reform and change, so much shit I wish could be changed without harming the legal system. But I'll shut up now...

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