To ask all Irish women to please show solidarity today?

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Please join the rallies in support of the victim in belfast today,theres rallies in Dublin belfast and cork. Enough is enough and we can not take this one lying down. Show support to the brave young woman and lets not have this trial be in vain.
Something has to change.

Studies consistently show female jurors are more likely to acquit, male dominated juries convict at a far higher rate.

Exactly, rape myths are internalised. Most of us do find ourselves questioning rape victims, even if we're wise enough not to do it out loud, it's a way of feeling safe; if we don't do x,y or z then it will never happen to us. Our logical minds know in reality that there is nothing we can do to protect ourselves but that knowledge is overwhelming, so magical thinking takes over. You see it everywhere.

Idontdow .. What about that footballer few yrs ago, was his career not impacted??

We'd do well to remember that being unpleasant, arrogant, unlikeable, stupid, or rich, privileged, famoys, or average, nondescript do not mean that someone is guilty.

My God, I can't even finish reading that Journal article. It pisses me off and breaks my heart in equal measure. Fucking bastards.

Well I suppose none of us know whether the people were guilty or not but they have been found not guilty by a jury. But I agree their behaviour was beyond disgraceful. Maybe it's time these sort of orgies were illegal. And then the men responsible would be tried for indecency.

What about that footballer few yrs ago, was his career not impacted??

Ched Evans??? Impacted? Have you checked what he's doing lately?

@ShatnersWig Being a juror on a rape case isn't about whether or not you're convinced someone has been raped - it's about whether the prosecution has proven beyond doubt that she was raped by the defendant. Your own convictions don't come into it at all.

There's a great thread here which explains how it's perfectly possible to believe a victim and yet still find the defendants not guilty.

twitter.com/zenbuffy/status/979007061424996352

Of course they should be tried by juries but the whole system is a mess. She was on the stand for eight days. They were on the stand about half a day each. She was cross examined by four different barristers.

The whole case stinks and just because they were acquitted does not mean it didnt happen.

These rallies are to show support and while it may be too late for her the whole system needs a shake up and now is the time for it.

@saoirse31 Have you been following the case? I'm struggling to understand how anyone who has could not believe her, to be honest.

“In Ireland, (republic), people accused of rape are not named unless found guilty, and then not if its family. I think that's better approach.“

That’s not correct
There’s no anonymity for defendants in a rape trial, only if identifying them would also identify the victim and the victim has the right to waiv that.

peach No, of course not, but you know what point I was making. The jury clearly felt that the one female witness who observed some of what took place and who felt it was consensual gave cause for reasonable doubt, hence their verdict.

Rotten That's fine. But what and how would we change the system? That's the question I keep asking (have done for years) and I've yet to hear a credible solution. That's not to say I wouldn't like one, but no one has yet come up with one that would pass all the necessary legal safeguards and tenets.

But it is clear evidence yet again that there does seem to be an issue with sportsmen and pack mentalities.

Peachgreen, that's exactly the point. Were we in the court room, seeing and hearing all evidence? No. So all we get is what's published and on social media. I genuinely don't know was she raped or not , either way I do feel desperate Ly sorry for her. But I don't know. The jury heard, saw all evidence and made their decision. I have to think they know more about it than I do.

I do think there's an argument for anonymity for accused before conviction.

I also think the police have questions to answer. I also wonder as someone said about when theirs multiple accused with different barristers , the victim will spend considerably more time being questioned..

I wonder is French examining magistrate system better..

( wasn't thinking of chef Evans, but interview I saw few yrs ago with someone accused sexual assault, found not guilty etc. Can't find it.)

From current website of DPP in Ireland on anonymity if accused in raoe trials.

This is a complicated subject and it is not possible to give a full account of the law here.

In some cases, names cannot be made public at all. For example, in cases of rape the accused has the right not to let his or her name be made public unless he or she is convicted. This means that nothing can be said to identify the accused before the verdict. An accused person who is found not guilty may not be identified.

If the accused is convicted, some victims may want the name of the accused to be made public. But often, if the convicted person is named, the identity of the victim will become known too. Despite this, some victims decide they want the convicted person named. If you want this to happen, you should tell the prosecution solicitor and the court.

If you are a victim, you should think carefully about what the naming of the guilty party will mean for you, your family and your future before you decide what to do. It may be a good idea to get your own legal advice.

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I'm a Scottish lawyer and having a not proven verdict available wouldn't make any difference. It's still an acquittal.

“Some actual facts from the case.”
And some falsehoods, theories and random statistics too

Why automatically believe her?

In what other case would a jury's result be disregarded?

Have you read the WhatsApp messages the players sent? These are vile enough to want to protest!

This happened in the UK

I think that's another really intresting point; the invisibility of NI women to other British women. This victim is discussed by Irish women, sent flowers by Irish women and is having the verdict protested by Irish women.

As to the gender composition of the jury: Evans was acquitted by a jury of seven women and five men; the judge was a woman; his counsel was a woman.

Juries act on the evidence - not on “education”. If the pros. could call experts the defence would have the same right - and they would find them, probably women too - to say the opposite. You can find an academic to swear to anything except - perhaps - that the earth is flat and they moon is made of green cheese.

I think that's another really intresting point; the invisibility of NI women to other British women. This victim is discussed by Irish women, sent flowers by Irish women and is having the verdict protested by Irish women.

Exactly the point I was coming on to make. If the defendants had been English rugby players, this would've been a much bigger story in the UK. Instead it's an Irish story, even though it happened in the UK under UK law. Is there a protest in London/Cardiff/Edinburgh?

Ginger1982 Serious question, not being flippant. Do people in Scotland still say that Not Proven means Not Guilty - and don’t do it again which is what I heard years ago?

I think that's another really intresting point; the invisibility of NI women to other British women. This victim is discussed by Irish women, sent flowers by Irish women and is having the verdict protested by Irish women

I was going to say this. Where are the protests in the UK? Where is the discussion? This happened in the UK, in a UK court yet compared to Irish forums, Irish bloggers and Irish media there seems to be little discussion. It is the same with abortion laws, it is seen as an Irish thing when women in the UK are having to travel for abortions too. I think people in the UK need to step up and stand by women in NI much more than they do.
I'm absolutely disgusted by this trial, I felt like crying when the verdict came in yesterday. What that woman went through in court was despicable and will stop people from reporting. I was so heartened though to see the #ibelieveyou trending, I know it isn't much but I hope it gives that woman some solace to know that so many people do believe her.

Women are not believed like men are

Yet it appears that the three women on the jury had no problem with reasonable doubt and it's likely that the highly creditable female witness who said she saw some of it and it looked consensual was believed.

The particular bit that bothered me was her clothing including underwear being shown to the court with the implication wearing a thong or a sparkly top meant you were up for group sex.

It’s the same as the Ched Evans case. Clothing and sexual history are irrelevant and shouldn’t be submitted.

Still support trial by jury though.

the highly creditable female witness who said she saw some of it and it looked consensual was believed.

LOL, so the woman who said it was consensual is a highly creditable female witness, but the actual victim isn't?

Blooming heck.