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AIBU?

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Original poster

To ask all Irish women to please show solidarity today?

349 replies

RottenTomatoes959 · 29/03/2018 08:20

Please join the rallies in support of the victim in belfast today,theres rallies in Dublin belfast and cork. Enough is enough and we can not take this one lying down. Show support to the brave young woman and lets not have this trial be in vain.
Something has to change.

OP posts:
LouHotel · 30/03/2018 16:30

Hopefully theses marches will help the poor girl not feel so alone.

Belfast is a small place so i imagine thar outside of the media she has been identified. I hope that the crown prosecution who told her she had a strong case are now continuing to support her.

Boulshired · 30/03/2018 17:19

The more this sinks in the more I am worried for young women especially with this case the group mentality and the violence. What message does this send out to men, that once a woman is alone she has no way of proving that she has not consented. Even if she has entered consensual sex with one there is nothing stopping others joining in. When younger the chances of sexual assault was always there but at least I had a feeling of safety in numbers. The what’s app messages show the group for what they are and is just sickening.

Mightymucks · 30/03/2018 17:45

This happened when my friend sat on a jury. The judge said it was obvious that the defendant raped the victim but if it went to appeal she'd have to go through the traumatic trial process again and he'd end up walking free, so he advised the jury to find him not guilty out of compassion for the victim.

This didn’t happen. It would be highly illegal and a serious miscarriage of justice.

Mightymucks · 30/03/2018 17:48

Apparently one of the jurors blogged the reason why they gave the not guilty verdict, does anyone know what it was?

BWatchWatcher · 30/03/2018 18:10

The juror is now in deep trouble.

HodorHodorHodor · 30/03/2018 18:33

Wow. I hadn't seen what she had said. What a strong young woman. I salute you and I believe you.

Newtothis2017 · 30/03/2018 18:40

Does anyone know what the juror said? I read about it but it didn't actually mention what he said.

Absolute disgrace. If they get their Ireland jerseys back I will never go to another game.

Graphista · 30/03/2018 18:47

The defendants lawyers have a bloody nerve calling sm commentary "vile" given the messages their clients sent! - and that's just the ones they didn't delete!

Also I'm reading that judges have the power to limit the length and depth of questioning of witnesses - including the victim - begs the question why didn't she in this case.

Certainly seems to me trial law and behaviour by officials on rape FAR too weighted in favour of defendants.

NI women's aid already reporting that rape victims have as a direct result decided not to proceed with prosecutions.

The apologists will say I'm wrong but no - rape is legal in the uk now.

moofolk · 30/03/2018 18:56

mightymucks sadly that did happen and I imagine happens frequently.
The problem is if a man says it was consensual it's likely he'll get off with it as there's no way of proving it even everybody can see he's lying.

So judges 'advise' jurors to find rapists not guilty to prevent the victim going through if again in appeal.

As appeals are three judges not a jury they go by the technicalities of the law rather than what they believe to be true.

It's nice that you have such faith in our justice system but sadly I do not.

Stillscreaming · 30/03/2018 18:58

@ Newtothis2017

There's a petition asking the IRFU to disbarr them from playing again.

This is a whole island of Ireland rugby team, so British signatures are equally welcome

www.change.org/p/irfu-conduct-a-review-of-jackson-olding-macilroy-and-harrison-s-behaviour?recruiter=205741781&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=share_petition.nafta_share_post_interaction.control

Mightymucks · 30/03/2018 19:05

moofoo, something I said earlier in the thread which was overlooked: Iceland has recently introduced a law which says that a man has to be given active consent (told yes) rather than the onus being on the woman to say no to make it rape.

That would mean in cases like this where the victim froze or felt to frightened to resist it would still be rape.

I think it’s a good idea.

blueshoes · 30/03/2018 19:06

This happened when my friend sat on a jury. The judge said it was obvious that the defendant raped the victim but if it went to appeal she'd have to go through the traumatic trial process again and he'd end up walking free, so he advised the jury to find him not guilty out of compassion for the victim.

I agree with MightyMucks that if the judge in fact gave this direction to the jury, it would be a mistrial and may result in the whole thing havng to be re-tried, which would be the very result the said "judge" was trying to avoid.

An appeal does not involve a trial i.e. the victim is not called as witness again. It is just judges in the appeal court considering the law based on the finding of facts made by the jury at the lower court. Therefore, whilst there is uncertainty as to the result, the victim does not in fact go through the whole traumatic trial process again. Which again, makes me think that 'direction' was made up or at least misconstrued.

boxthefox · 30/03/2018 19:07

IRFU have just won the Triple Crown and the Grand Slam. The only thing that stopped a triumphal march for the team was the snow. The trial didn't impede anything.

Season moving on now. But I doubt they will get involved other than as an employer. But tell me now, what employer can sack someone for being found not guilty.

Anyway. Things will move on, and this episode will be gone within a month or so. I know there is to be a review of the accused, but guess what will happen there?

We have to be realistic about the patriarchy, SOME of whom may have punched the air when the verdict was announced. It is sport after all. And the men involved are invincible. It is replicated all over the world.

Boulshired · 30/03/2018 19:08

For paddy Jackson the threat of suing over tweets has slightly back fired as #suemepaddy is trending. Do like the tweet “sue me paddy this is me giving you consent” and “paddy you are going to need a larger court house.”

Xmaspost · 30/03/2018 19:12

Another disturbing development in the post trial developments is the threat to sue one of the politicians who tweeted about believing her (Labour Senator Aodhan O'Riordain ... no idea who he is) ... but I did find a copy of the tweet and found it very fair.

I'm off to sign up for twitter and post with #suemepaddy ... great idea whoever started that!

Of course I have no idea of the truth in this case, but find that threat disgusting.

Stillscreaming · 30/03/2018 19:24

Season moving on now. But I doubt they will get involved other than as an employer. But tell me now, what employer can sack someone for being found not guilty.

They are being investigated for their whatsap messages, sadly they will be more seriously punished for 'ungentlemanly conduct', than their savage conduct.

Mightymucks · 30/03/2018 19:24

He would be foolhardy to threaten to sue. People have done similar before and lost which has effectively meant a civil court has judged them guilty and they paid for the privilege themselves!

lalalalyra · 30/03/2018 19:26

Given the Irish rugby board didn't ban him from being picked after he dressed up (and blacked up) as a slave, and his mates as 'Ethiopians' in 2014 I'm not convinced they'll rule out picking him after this.

boxthefox · 30/03/2018 19:33

@Still screaming.

I will give it a few weeks. The review will be a snow job unless IRFU want to be sued for unfair dismissal.

Not guilty is the get out clause. Let us get real here.

lalalalyra · 30/03/2018 19:42

The review will be a snow job unless IRFU want to be sued for unfair dismissal.

They'll probably just end up hoping and praying that someone else in his position plays better so they can not pick him and curry favour with the fans, but without risking a tribunal.

moofolk · 30/03/2018 19:44

mightymucks blue shoes

That was how it was explained to me anyway.

Highly agree with the notion of enthusiastic consent I didn't realise that had actually been brought in in Iceland. They do things better there!

I still think that rapists would just lie and say the woman had enthusiastically consented but at lest they are more likely to know themselves what they've done and obviously it's much better than what we have.

I think many (most) rapists kid themselves they aren't rapists. Studies have shown that a shocking number admit to rape if the act is described but not named. Can find links if anyone interested to read.

mathanxiety · 30/03/2018 19:47

It's a horrific glimpse into the vile misogyny that is very much alive and kicking, and I hope the support expressed by the marches will help both the victim in the current case and anyone else.

Boycotting the rugby establishment might be a good idea too.

boxthefox · 30/03/2018 19:50

@mathanxiety,

Misogyny in sport is a given. I don't know how it will be any different in this case really.

Who do you think will boycott IRFU? Not many I would suggest.

Mightymucks · 30/03/2018 19:52

It would have given less weight to things like the female witness saying it appeared consensual if there was legal recognition of the fact that not actively trying to get away might indicate fear rather than consent.

Mightymucks · 30/03/2018 19:53

Because in situations like that I don’t think you can rely on other women, especially other teenagers. I think they’d be just as likely to laugh at you and call you a slag as help you.