To ask all Irish women to please show solidarity today?

[RottenTomatoes959]

Please join the rallies in support of the victim in belfast today,theres rallies in Dublin belfast and cork. Enough is enough and we can not take this one lying down. Show support to the brave young woman and lets not have this trial be in vain.
Something has to change.

I believe her

Radyward how can one have respect for a justice system that is clearly weighted towards the accused. I have been in the same position many years ago. Please don't belittle the experience of thousands of women who have been attacked and do not get justice because the system is weighted against them.

@rockshandy

Hypothetically: What if a man and a woman are equally drunk and neither can communicate coherently?

No one deserves to be burgled or raped, but if you leave your window open, you do make it easier for the criminals to be taken advantage of

Oh ff’s SAKE.

This has no place in a serious discussion of rape.

Lethal well said - sorry you've been through that

Lets not get bogged down in hypothetical nonsense please. I won't entertain it. You cannot diminish the experiences of so many women by clinging to a ridiculous scenario that you think proves something it doesn't.

@Graphista

You seem to be positing the idea that only a certain type of woman (or girl) gets raped. That's wrong, disgusting and dangerous. - I am really not. Where are you getting this from? I think this is your prejudice about "certain type of woman". Anyone can get raped, but feel free to put words in my mouth.

I don't even know what "blue ball nonsense" is. Please enlighten me.

Men in general can stop. Men might not perceive you want them to stop. This case was not a case of vaginal discomfort, was it?

"either drugs or alcohol or both are involved" oh for crying out loud - Have you never been so drunk you don't have any recollection of what happened or have a different version of events to your friends? Not something I am proud of, but I can relate.

My assumptions about you are based solely on your responses. If you read my posts critically, you would see that I am not saying things you think you are saying. Please show me a quote, where I said, it matters what you are wearing?

@rockshandy

We are all talking largely hypotheticals in this thread. We are not privy to the details of the events.

The fact that you don't want to entertain it speaks volumes. It means you don't know the answer. Women are not automatically victims and men are not all aggressors is what I am trying to say.

This case was not a case of vaginal discomfort, was it?

She was bleeding from a cut in the wall of her vagina and there was evidence of blunt force trauma.

For fucks sake.

I was calm until that. I was trying to understand where you were coming from because many women hold similar views to you.

But after that, I refuse to engage.

@TatianaLarina

You are right. Burglary has nothing to do with rape.

*@rockshandy *

I don't know enough about what can and can not cause blunt force trauma. We don't know anything about her biology. I sympathise that she was hurt. Blunt force trauma sensation is surely much stronger than vaginal discomfort?

What I am trying to say is that you can have vaginal discomfort and proceed with intercourse consensually, because it's a temporary issue. I know I have. Not enough lubrication in the beginning, as a result of biological issue, not consensual one.

This case was not a case of vaginal discomfort, was it?

The girl was bleeding due to rough treatment during intercourse, she bled on her underwear, on the bed which the man could see, she was bleeding through her trousers as she was leaving, all the way home in a taxi so much so a taxi driver got out to check if the seats in his taxi were stained. She bled for 24 hours after the attack. There is medical evidence of internal injuries. But it was all because she was having so much fun.

I AM basing what I say about your moral judgment of rape victims on things you have said on this thread:

1 "Not allow defence lawyers to use the victims dress, level of intoxication, location, prior sexual history, mh history, Dv history to be used.
...
How can you sensibly argue that these things are never relevant and should never be allowed to be used?..."

2 "was acting like she consented"

3 . I am having trouble with concept of withdrawing consent after kissing someone and going home with them.

4 while you might have a point about self-preservation in some scenarios, like rape by a stranger in a dark alley, I am struggling with this analogy in this case.

5 . I have never kissed anyone who I didn’t want to have sex with. - strongly implies you think you're "better" than rape victims, that women shouldn't be sexual in ANY way unless they want that to be taken as consent for sex.

6 I don’t understand why would you put yourself in that situation.

7 I would make an excuse and leave. - as if it's THAT easy - in this case she was up against 4 LARGE ATHLETES!

8 Kissing someone you are attracted to is a sexual act.

9 One can start having intercourse with someone and change their mind, but why would one do that?

10 but when you kiss someone, you are signalling that you might be up for more.

11 in most, if not all, cases of this nature, either drugs or alcohol or both are involved, which make issues like consent incredibly tricky.

12 We are not talking about two people, who met during coffee break during the day, are we?

13 I'm saying confusing blurry situations like kissing someone and then deciding not to continue with intercourse, is not the same as a woman coming home from work late at night.

Victim blaming bollocks times THIRTEEN.

Mnhq - feel free to delete this post as it contains victim blaming quotes.

@Graphista

I will give you No. 1 - It does mention clothing, which is not relevant. Neither is dv history or location. I am not even sure, how you can use location? However, level of intoxication, prior sexual history, mh history might be relevant depending on the case. It might or might not be. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. I do not believe in restricting what defence can use. It is up to the jury to think critically about the case presented to them.

I stand by the rest of what I said. It is your choice to misinterpret me.

Victim blaming is just one of those phrases, that some people use, when they don't have a better argument.

@Toomanynamestoremember

To be devil's advocate, women give birth and tear and bleed. They don't have fun, but they consent to it. You also don't always feel the tear happen.

I am not arguing that these men were not rough with her or that she was not bleeding.

Definition of Rape:

(1) A person (A) commits an offence if—

(a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,

(b) B does not consent to the penetration, and

*(c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

(2) Whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents.* - I am guessing this is the part that the jury was not convinced has been proven beyond reasonable doubt. Details of poor woman bleeding are unpleasant but not directly related to this part of mens rea.

No I've outlined my argument VERY clearly. Your argument is despicable and dangerous.

Wedonttalkaboutthesethings can't possibly be a woman, or if a woman has been an incredibly lucky one to have never come across a man pushing her to go further than she wants to

"just make an excuse and leave" - I've never heard anything so ridiculous in my life. If women could always just make an excuse and leave there would be no rapes. The fact is, they often can't.

As for the rest - it's a long time since I read such a stream of deluded nonsense.

Maryz - when you put it this way, it does sound bad, I admit. Context is king.

Many young and teen boys who are Irish rugby fans look up to their sporting heroes. Irrespective of the verdict, these creeps are no heroes, no role models. Their behaviour was vile and disgusting. Their treatment of this woman was inhumane. Shame on them.

The trial was run under UK law. If it was in the republic, it probably wouldn't even get to court, so bad are the cases here. No matter guilty or not, those bastards will never play a day for an international team again - 'spit roast', 'carnival'; oh how the little shits fall and wash away with the drain water.

I don’t think for one second that those men didn’t rape her.

Like many on this thread, I'm horrified and saddened by the verdict but not at all surprised. I tried googling countries with the highest conviction rates for rape, but couldn't find anything, which I think tells us a lot. This was the top result however, which makes for very grim reading en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics.

Oh yes and I overheard a conversation in work to the effect of "aye the girl will probably sell her story now". I absolutely fucking despair. Thick as champ. Male of course.

They were found NOT guilty.

That doesn't mean they didn't do it, that would be an acquittal, but it doesn't mean they did do it either.

There wasn't enough evidence presented at trial for the jury to reach a guilty verdict.

You cannot reference crime stats for other offences and claim that rape convivtions should be similar. If it didn't happen, it didn't happen, regardless of how much the woman believed it did.

Rape is terrible. But hounding innocent men, who have been found not guilty by a jury, is just as bad.

#ibelievethejury

It's not productive or empathetic to march around saying "Ibelieveher"

What the actual fuck?